ILCA gives LPE the boot... seeking new Laser builder

[Bill5]

Good God. Just curious ffs.

 

[Wess]

Calm down and don’t have a stroke Bill. It’s not like anything is going to change or opinions are going to shift.  It’s a fun diversion with occasional new developments and interesting insights. And music. It’s SA for gosh sake. Take a chill pill and go sailing.

Oh that’s right; you can’t. Sorry; not sorry. But Spring will show up any day now!  

 

[Bill5]

Calm down and don’t have a stroke Bill. It’s not like anything is going to change or opinions are going to shift.  It’s a fun diversion with occasional new developments and interesting insights. And music. It’s SA for gosh sake. Take a chill pill and go sailing.

Oh that’s right; you can’t. Sorry; not sorry. But Spring will show up any day now!  

I guess the tone didn't come across. I suppose I could have added an eye roll

 

[Wess]

I guess the tone didn't come across. I suppose I could have added an eye roll

And music @Bill5.  You gotta add some music LOL. 

 

[RobbieB]

6 hours ago, Wess said:

I am not answering any boat questions LOL other than to say my view and goals are clear.  I don't buy Chinese crap if it can be avoided and I don't want to help fund a broken organization like ILCA that undermines the grass roots sailors and abandons the core principles the class and Laser was built on.

Right about now Tiller is wondering if I bought an Aero...

Well then hopefully you covered your ass and bought a good condition used boat that currently goes "both ways".

 

[tillerman]

I love this place!  And ILCA leadership  still sucks. And... yes I bought a boat. 

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[Andy B]

Returning to my original question; if LPE are not now responsible for the high price of class legal sails who is, and, are they pocketing the huge profit margin we were previously told on the forums was being taken by LPE?

 

[Wess]

Pics or it didn't happen.

I could have used that tonnage while sailing today.  Even with the radial.  And while I ain't posting pics of it, you can come see it here....

 

[Bruce Hudson]

Returning to my original question; if LPE are not now responsible for the high price of class legal sails who is, and, are they pocketing the huge profit margin we were previously told on the forums was being taken by LPE?

Even though the Laser/ILCA is one of the most successful boats ever, the number of sales, dominated by the sales in Europe, is relatively low. We're only talking about a few million dollars turnover, split by several parties.

Bottom line is that boat manufacturer's "huge profits" are relative and in the scheme of things, in my view, quite small.

One of the issues is that a sail goes from sailmaker to boat manufacturer, to retailer/s - and all three (or in some cases four) add a margin. The question of whether sails 'should' be sold directly from sailmakers is controversial and I imagine would be voted against by the boat manufacturers at ILCA World Council level.

What isn't so accurate are perceptions gained from the forums, including this one.  

 

[Xeon]

No idea what the current price of a laser sail is .

But the price of the sails for my last three UK boats are, 

1) Lightning 368 ( SMOD ) sail price = £520 

2) Supernova ( SMOD ) sail price = £899 

3) British moth ( open class any sail maker ) sail price. £ 700 to £850 .

The sail area of all these classes are very similar to a laser/ ILCA .

Just checked the uk price of a ILCA sail = £540 

 

[JMP]

North are selling ILCA sails direct in the US/Canada now, marginally cheaper than they were before.  In Australia the MKII sail is a couple of hundred dollars more than an Aero7 sail, more expensive than an Aero9 sail from the same sail maker too

New ILCA Dinghy Sails - MK2, Radial, 4.7 | North Sails

 

[Bill5]

Has anybody ever claimed that Laser sails are fair value? 

 

[tillerman]

 

[Martin T]

I never understood why a "Class Compliant sail" (£410) is £130 cheaper than a "Class Legal sail" (£540) here in the UK. The only difference is one has a red button!

 

[Bill5]

ILCA gets button fees of USD28 for the standard sail and USD13 for the radial. (Preemptive post)

 

[tillerman]

I never understood why a "Class Compliant sail" (£410) is £130 cheaper than a "Class Legal sail" (£540) here in the UK. The only difference is one has a red button!

Because if you want to sail in ILCA regattas you have to have a class legal sail, so it has more value, so they price it higher. 

For guys who sail a lot of ILCA regattas and travel all over the country to sail ICLA regattas and go to international ILCA events, the cost of a new sail now and then is only a small part of the total cost to play the game when you consider costs of travel, accommodation, entry fees, charter fees, clinics, coach etc. etc. 

If you just want to race with your local club or frostbite fleet you will probably find that they will allow you to sail with a "practice" sail that is identical to the ILCA sail but is not ILCA class legal. Enjoy!

 

[Wess]

Has anybody ever claimed that Laser sails are fair value? 

No, I have never claimed that anything that current ILCA leadership has done is fair value.  Not just sails.  There is nothing about an ILCA that one could argue is even remotely fair value.  Way over priced for what it is. 

 

[RobbieB]

No, I have never claimed that anything that current ILCA leadership has done is fair value.  Not just sails.  There is nothing about an ILCA that one could argue is even remotely fair value.  Way over priced for what it is. 

Of the OD single handed dingies with new boats available on the market.  Which ones would you consider "fair" in their value?

 

[tillerman]

Of the OD single handed dingies with new boats available on the market.  Which ones would you consider "fair" in their value?

The ones that people are buying...

 

[RobbieB]

The ones that people are buying...

Umm.  Ok.  ILCA's are being bought.  What else is selling?