ILCA gives LPE the boot... seeking new Laser builder

[tillerman]

Most ILCA/Laser owners have no intention of ever entering an ILCA sanctioned event and should be able to buy consumable parts without subsiding the elite few.  

Those people can buy sails from Intensity for $160. They don't have to buy the more expensive class-legal sails.

 

[VWAP]

The cost of entering ILCA events should be on the annual cost of ILCA membership or the entry to a specific event, not levied on the price of spare parts that everyone eventually needs whether they enter ILCA events or not.  Most ILCA/Laser owners have no intention of ever entering an ILCA sanctioned event and should be able to buy consumable parts without subsiding the elite few.  

So which  currently manufactured single hander excluding the Sunfish would you suggest getting where $150.00 or similar   sails are widely available ?

 

[Bill5]

The cost of entering ILCA events should be on the annual cost of ILCA membership or the entry to a specific event, not levied on the price of spare parts that everyone eventually needs whether they enter ILCA events or not.  Most ILCA/Laser owners have no intention of ever entering an ILCA sanctioned event and should be able to buy consumable parts without subsiding the elite few.  

Again? It’s only a few bucks per sail.

 

[tillerman]

So which  currently manufactured single hander excluding the Sunfish would you suggest getting where $150.00 or similar   sails are widely available ?

Great point. 

You could argue that the availability of sails for $150 is one of the most important reasons for the continuing popularity of the Laser at the grass-roots level.

 

[Board skiff]

You are missing my point a bit.

a. Industry experts reckon the fair, sustainable,  price is ball park $800. 

b. $800 is an expensive bit of tailoring for what you get compared to what the same amount will get you for a dress or tent.

c. $800 is not a good value proposition for many non-elite Laser sailors.

d. Any sensible business organisation would aim to sell spares to all its customers, not just the elite few. 

e. A well known sailmaker is offering an alternative at less than $200.  This isn’t just a bit less, which could be accounted for by not incurring development costs and not being as socially conscientious - this is disruptively less.

 

[Wess]

Great point. 

You could argue that the availability of sails for $150 is one of the most important reasons for the continuing popularity of the Laser at the grass-roots level.

So many lessons to

learn from

that.

 

[Wess]

The cost of entering ILCA events should be on the annual cost of ILCA membership or the entry to a specific event, not levied on the price of spare parts that everyone eventually needs whether they enter ILCA events or not.  Most ILCA/Laser owners have no intention of ever entering an ILCA sanctioned event and should be able to buy consumable parts without subsiding the elite few.  

Amen!

 

[Wess]

You are missing my point a bit.

a. Industry experts reckon the fair, sustainable,  price is ball park $800. 

b. $800 is an expensive bit of tailoring for what you get compared to what the same amount will get you for a dress or tent.

c. $800 is not a good value proposition for many non-elite Laser sailors.

d. Any sensible business organisation would aim to sell spares to all its customers, not just the elite few. 

e. A well known sailmaker is offering an alternative at less than $200.  This isn’t just a bit less, which could be accounted for by not incurring development costs and not being as socially conscientious - this is disruptively less.

Plus 1

 

[Bill5]

You are missing my point a bit.

a. Industry experts reckon the fair, sustainable,  price is ball park $800. 

b. $800 is an expensive bit of tailoring for what you get compared to what the same amount will get you for a dress or tent.

c. $800 is not a good value proposition for many non-elite Laser sailors.

d. Any sensible business organisation would aim to sell spares to all its customers, not just the elite few. 

e. A well known sailmaker is offering an alternative at less than $200.  This isn’t just a bit less, which could be accounted for by not incurring development costs and not being as socially conscientious - this is disruptively less.

Which point?

a) yes, I asked that question and Dave replied.

b) not sure how to compare a sail with a dress. I don’t have any. Or how that is relevant. I have had suits made for me, but the inseam ripped when I put on too much vang.And wearing my sail makes my ass look fat.

c) no argument from anyone than I can recall. I also believe the LP boat is a good option if you just race at the club - if you can find one. But I choose a good used boat and am totally competitive in the region.

d) I will forward your comment to North. Idiots.

e) and the perfect option for the non sanctioned event racer!

What am I missing?
 

 

[Board skiff]

What am I missing?

Why don’t ILCA approve the Intensity sail for competition? If it measures, who are they to disallow it?

ILCA have opened the lid on FRANDora’s box, but trapped common sense inside. 

 

[JMP]

aren't sails next on the list for additional suppliers?  Fairly sure I read that in one of the articles in the recent past on the back of the additional builder announcements.  I'd hope Intensity would throw their hat in the ring, but I'd guess ILCA will put a clause in the contract stating that they can't make "Practice" sails or similar.
Pryde do "Practice" sails though direct so I guess time will tell  Laser Radial Practice Racing Sail - Neil Pryde Sails International

 

[RobbieB]

So which  currently manufactured single hander excluding the Sunfish would you suggest getting where $150.00 or similar   sails are widely available ?

This- BTW the Sunfish class legal "race sail" goes for $535.00 at West Coast Sailing so WTF are y'all yammering on about?

 

[RobbieB]

"Hey- I can take a dump in a box and stamp it "Guaranteed" but what does that get you??"

 

[Wess]

"Hey- I can take a dump in a box and stamp it "Guaranteed" but what does that get you??"

Are you trying to say the affordable generic sails that are not class legal are a dump in the box?  :wacko:

 

[tillerman]

Why don’t ILCA approve the Intensity sail for competition? If it measures, who are they to disallow it?

I know that we have been discussing this topic for at least 10 years. You think someone would have solved it by now.

 

[RobbieB]

I know that we have been discussing this topic for at least 10 years. You think someone would have solved it by now.

Having owned and sailed and Intensity sail I can say with knowledge it's a different sail and trims differently.  Different material and either a slightly different cut or not quite the QC on the cut/stitching you get from the class approved sails.  The MKII version also sports a different window, (like totally different).  Now, I don't complain at all and am happy to see new sailors come out when they have one of these sails.  They represent a great value for what they are.  Hell, I even recommend them to folks who are not eager to dump $600 on a new sail.  However, I also know those folks won't contest the front of the fleet for typically a lot of reasons but one is the quality is not the same as what you're getting on a class sail.  

I challenge you to pick a sport where quality gear does NOT make a difference.  

 

[RobbieB]

Are you trying to say the affordable generic sails that are not class legal are a dump in the box?  :wacko:

It goes back to "Tommy Boy".  Do you want quality brake pads or the generic stuff?

 

[Bill5]

Are you trying to say the affordable generic sails that are not class legal are a dump in the box?  :wacko:

I believe they are mostly made in that country with whom you will not conduct business anyway.

 

[tillerman]

It goes back to "Tommy Boy".  Do you want quality brake pads or the generic stuff?

Wasn't Bo Derek in that movie?

 

[chuso007]

I challenge you to pick a sport where quality gear does NOT make a difference.  

I've never seen the Intensity sail but I own the Rooster (231€) and I can  assure you it doesn't look or feel of lower quality than a legal MK2.