ILCA gives LPE the boot... seeking new Laser builder

[tillerman]

Laser standard XD £3480 ($4846) https://www.sailandsport.co.uk/shop/laser/laser-xd-composite-upper-mast/

Ovington ILCA 7 £6850 ($9539) https://ovingtonboats.com/ilca-boat/#packages

Having no interest in class events only club racing and opens it was an easy choice, my Laser standard XD arrives next week. 

It's good to have choices. Why pay almost twice as much if you don't plan to sail in ILCA sanctioned regattas?

It will be interesting to see how many ILCAs Ovington will be able to sell at that price.

Have fun!

 

 

[VWAP]

It's good to have choices. Why pay almost twice as much if you don't plan to sail in ILCA sanctioned regattas?

It will be interesting to see how many ILCAs Ovington will be able to sell at that price.

Have fun!

 

Interesting to see what the resale value will be in a few years

 

[Bill5]

That price is pretty close to a Topper in the UK. How can that possibly be sustainable?

 

[Xeon]

That price is pretty close to a Topper in the UK. How can that possibly be sustainable?

The simple answer is, it isn’t . As anybody in the industry in this country will tell you . 
I have long since given up trying to work out what LPE strategy is as the last person I have had any contact with from within the factory left over a year ago. 
 

Anyway am I the only cynic on here that finds a new poster coming on posting how much cheaper a LPE boat is and saying he has bought one a little suspicious.I really hope I am wrong and he will post loads of pics of his new boat being sailed and maybe even a Bill of sale/receipt.

But at the moment the smell of Bull@@it is overpowering 

 

[Xeon]

Let Me Inquire

What would be the name of that sock?

Metoxi  -   Maybe ? 

 

[Metoxi]

Let us know if it actually arrives. Be great to see pictures, and your confirmation that it doesn't leak!

I shared the same concern not knowing the dealer and the price being so cheap so I contacted Laser Performance who confirmed the dealer is authorised and the boats are in stock ready for delivery.

I'll send you a picture although it'll be the week after next as it's being delivered directly to my club and in England we can't get access to our clubs until the 29th.

Where on the boat should I be checking for leaks?

 

[Metoxi]

The simple answer is, it isn’t . As anybody in the industry in this country will tell you . 
I have long since given up trying to work out what LPE strategy is as the last person I have had any contact with from within the factory left over a year ago. 
 

Anyway am I the only cynic on here that finds a new poster coming on posting how much cheaper a LPE boat is and saying he has bought one a little suspicious.I really hope I am wrong and he will post loads of pics of his new boat being sailed and maybe even a Bill of sale/receipt.

But at the moment the smell of Bull@@it is overpowering 

I don't blame you being cynical. 

I've been following this thread with great interest for a few months and thought a post on my experience would generate some interest.

I will post pictures of the delivery, unpacking and first sail to address your concerns and you can come to South Cerney Sailing Club for a first hand look if you wish. 

 

[tillerman]

That price is pretty close to a Topper in the UK. How can that possibly be sustainable?

Good point.

At the other end of the scale, the dollar price Metoxi quotes for the Ovington ILCA is actually higher than the current list price for a new RS Aero in the US. I can't believe that is really the case.

 

[Metoxi]

At the other end of the scale, the dollar price Metoxi quotes for the Ovington ILCA is actually higher than the current list price for a new RS Aero in the US. I can't believe that is really the case.

I just took the UK list price in GBP then used the current XE rate so not accurate, your markets price for the equivalent ILCA boat (composite trim, no prep) is $8695.

https://westcoastsailing.net/ovington-ilca-sailboat/

 

[JMP]

I'm quite interested to see who LP are using for their sails now, and what has been changed on their MKII compared to the class legal version

 

[WGWarburton]

Recent fb post from LP states 585 Lasers sold last year: https://www.facebook.com/TheLaserClass/posts/266607844903790

 I wonder how many ILCAs were delivered... anyone know?  I'm guessing less overall LaserLike boats than usual given the whole pandemic thing but you never know... that looks like a pretty substantial percentage of the likely total...

Cheers,

               W.

 

[tillerman]

Recent fb post from LP states 585 Lasers sold last year: https://www.facebook.com/TheLaserClass/posts/266607844903790

 I wonder how many ILCAs were delivered... anyone know?  I'm guessing less overall LaserLike boats than usual given the whole pandemic thing but you never know... that looks like a pretty substantial percentage of the likely total...

Cheers,

               W.

The Laser Class Zoom Panel posted above a few days ago includes some remarks from Tracy Usher about new boat sales. He said they were recently running at abound 2,000 a year but lower than that in the last year or two, and they were looking to bounce back to 3,000 a year with all the pent-up demand and new builders coming on line.

 

[JimC]

only club racing and opens it was an easy choice, my Laser standard XD arrives next week. 

You are exceedingly unlikely to be eligible for any open events run under the UKLA banner, which is nearly all of them, so lets hope if this is real you don't regret it.

 

[Metoxi]

You are exceedingly unlikely to be eligible for any open events run under the UKLA banner, which is nearly all of them, so lets hope if this is real you don't regret it.

99% of my sailing will be on my club water, in the rare event I want to attend an open I am referring to handicap events not UKLA events.

 

[WGWarburton]

You are exceedingly unlikely to be eligible for any open events run under the UKLA banner, which is nearly all of them, so lets hope if this is real you don't regret it.

Let's face it, the number of people attending UKLA events is pretty small.  There are an awful lot more people sailing Lasers at clubs and regional events than officially sanctioned qualifiers and Nationals.

 The class association seems to have recognised that and optimised the boat for that minority (ie their members). The majority of Laser sailors just want to enjoy their boats. It appears the UKLA didn't have much relevance to them then and probably has less now. 

 As VWAP suggests, we can probably expect to see a drop in prices for used boats soon (why would you pay £4000 for a used ILCA?) but I guess the longer term will depend on whether LPE can continue in business and to what extent they can continue to undercut the ILCA builders. 

 Perhaps we'll see a boom in club/open sailing as a result of a glut of cheap used Lasers?

Cheers,

              W.

 

[EYESAILOR]

Let's face it, the number of people attending UKLA events is pretty small.  There are an awful lot more people sailing Lasers at clubs and regional events than officially sanctioned qualifiers and Nationals.

 The class association seems to have recognised that and optimised the boat for that minority (ie their members). The majority of Laser sailors just want to enjoy their boats. It appears the UKLA didn't have much relevance to them then and probably has less now. 

 As VWAP suggests, we can probably expect to see a drop in prices for used boats soon (why would you pay £4000 for a used ILCA?) but I guess the longer term will depend on whether LPE can continue in business and to what extent they can continue to undercut the ILCA builders. 

 Perhaps we'll see a boom in club/open sailing as a result of a glut of cheap used Lasers?

Cheers,

              W.

I am still surprised that LP doesnt apply to be an ILCA builder. Under FRAND, they would presumably have to be approved if their boats measured.....too much ego? 

But if Metoxi later wants to sail at an UKLCA event, and he takes his boat and has it measured ...and pays the plaque fee and the royalty fees on all his parts and joins the class association.......so assuming boat is identical and all fees paid,  will the event organizers still turn him away? (in order to discourage people buying LP boats)

When boats turn up for a little open meeting at local club on an English estuary, (not a regional UKLCA qualifier , just an open weekend) does the host club turn away two additional entries that gets them from 14 boats on the line to 16? because they are LP boats?   At that price, I think that sailors who dont want to sail the circuit, its going to be awfully tempting to just buy a Laser vs a fancy Ovington ILCA.

 

[RobbieB]

I am still surprised that LP doesnt apply to be an ILCA builder. Under FRAND, they would presumably have to be approved if their boats measured.....too much ego? Agreed.  I'm still perplexed as to why they went that route, but agree it must be ego based.

But if Metoxi later wants to sail at an UKLCA event, and he takes his boat and has it measured ...and pays the plaque fee and the royalty fees on all his parts and joins the class association.......so assuming boat is identical and all fees paid,  will the event organizers still turn him away? (in order to discourage people buying LP boats)These items can not be handled by boat owners on the back end of a new boat transaction.  They must come from an ILCA approved builder.

When boats turn up for a little open meeting at local club on an English estuary, (not a regional UKLCA qualifier , just an open weekend) does the host club turn away two additional entries that gets them from 14 boats on the line to 16? because they are LP boats?   At that price, I think that sailors who dont want to sail the circuit, its going to be awfully tempting to just buy a Laser vs a fancy Ovington ILCA. Remains to be seen where "lines in the sand" will be drawn. I suspect that'll be a moving target based on variable factors.

 

[EYESAILOR]

Im just wondering if in 3 years time, ILCA will announce some kind of amnesty for owners of LP boats to try an encourage participation.  Lest assume LP are long since filed for bankruptcy.  It would be a shame to leave several hundred boats  out in the cold

 

[Xeon]

99% of my sailing will be on my club water, in the rare event I want to attend an open I am referring to handicap events not UKLA events.

Then remember to tell the organisers that you are not a ILCA boat and you are a Laser class boat . They might put you in with the ILCA class or they might give you a separate handicap . Have fun either way . 

 

[JimC]

he takes his boat and has it measured ...

(not a regional UKLCA qualifier , just an open weekend) 

Lasers aren't measured. They are warranted by the builder, hence the inspection regime that Laser Performance decided not to continue with. Even if the boat could be demonstrated to measure it would still not be a legal International (Laser). See the Etchells mess for a similar can of worms.

My little club's opens are not qualifiers but are still ILCA sanctioned events, and we have to turn away anyone who attends with replica sails (or lend them one). ILCA sanction extends much further than just the big qualifiers, every event included in one of the regional traveller series requires legal boats, and clubs want to be in the traveller series because of the increased publicity and turnout.