SimonN
Super Anarchist
Really? Yes, I know it is genuine but this newbie is rather suspect. Consider the 4 posts he has made - promoting LPE products, throwing shade at competitors and an attempt to make LPE look good. Just a "concerned citizen"?
ILCA gives LPE the boot... seeking new Laser builder
- Thread starter Wess
- Start date
RobbieB
Super Anarchist
Can anyone verify Sailing Inc in Cleveland has sold "quite a few" LPE's in the last 6 months or so? I know of one. No animosity just genuinely curious.
Andy B
New member
- 5
- 4
All my posts are simply factual and point out how the costs have spiralled out of control now we have the FRAND arrangements and one does not even refer to the Laser but to the construction of a competitors boat. I have been sailing Lasers for 35 years and have no connections with LPE except that I have bought many new boats from them, always at a competitive price and I have never had any problems with the equipment they have provided. My concern is that ILCA are pricing the Laser out of the market because my last boat was £4k cheaper than the alternative classes, an ILCA is now be slightly more than some of the other choices so why are sailors going to pay more money for 1960's technology when there are better boats available. At the Olympic trials the sailors wanted an alternative boat to the Laser and we can expect the sailors to lobby for change in 2028.Really? Yes, I know it is genuine but this newbie is rather suspect. Consider the 4 posts he has made - promoting LPE products, throwing shade at competitors and an attempt to make LPE look good. Just a "concerned citizen"?
My worry is the Laser will will die as and become another obsolete Olympic Class with minority appeal rather than a mass market fun boat for everyone to have fantastic sailing. During lockdown one I read an article by Gilles Gluck posted on the front page of the French web site, it is very very long and very descriptive but some of the basic points and comparisons are quite relevant as he demonstrates how other classes and products have come and gone. I do hope he is wrong and the Laser is not at the end of its product life cycle. Perhaps things will change to bring back mass market appeal such as Zim starting to import at a price to compete with LPE, of course if LPE survive.
JimC
Not actually an anarchist.
Have the costs spiralled? I'm not at all sure they have. Current LPE prices just reflect the 'shall we politely say aggressive discounting' that dates back to when they started their war with the CA. That discounting only ever applied to unregistered boats. I'm not sure that the current prices are much out of line with what LPE were charging for International Lasers when they were still selling them. So its ironic that this heavy discounting only exists because of the war with the CA that ended up with FRAND and opening the class to multiple builders.
tillerman
Super Anarchist
Link to English translation of the Gilles Gluck article.
https://sailingforums.com/threads/the-future-of-the-laser-sorcerers-apprentices-and-the-goose-that-lays-the-golden-eggs-by-gilles-gluck.41976/
https://sailingforums.com/threads/the-future-of-the-laser-sorcerers-apprentices-and-the-goose-that-lays-the-golden-eggs-by-gilles-gluck.41976/
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't think globally the ILCA boat has anything to worry about however in the UK the price has narrowed with the Aero and there are noticeably more Aeros in the results now.
I was very close to buying an XD composite top LPE boat at a Dinghy show price of £3500 however on talking to local clubs there was confusion over the current situation, how to handicap it and concerns of being stuck with an obsolete boat so decided against it.
Last edited by a moderator:
tillerman
Super Anarchist
A new ILCA was out of my budget (£4.5k), all of the 2nd hand ones within budget were not in great condition however during my search a very nice RS300 came up for sale. Always had my eye on one but not many come up for sale so this was too good an opportunity to pass up. I'm getting very familiar with the underneath of it, hence my avatar.
Wess
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #10,330
Oye, trying to catch up and have to laugh at you folk thinking anyone not wanting to pay ILCA inflated prices is a troll or plant. Are you really that delusional? You do realize its a fact that the majority of Laser sailors don't join ILCA right? Its you plaque nazis that are the plants!
tillerman
Super Anarchist
Brilliant. I am a great admirer of RS300 sailors. Used to enjoy following this RS300 blogger but he hasn't posted for a few months.A new ILCA was out of my budget (£4.5k), all of the 2nd hand ones within budget were not in great condition however during my search a very nice RS300 came up for sale. Always had my eye on one but not many come up for sale so this was too good an opportunity to pass up. I'm getting very familiar with the underneath of it, hence my avatar.
Last edited by a moderator:
Good for you, they are great boats but tricky to sail. People that master them tend to stay with them , but most sailors have to put up with a steep learning curve in the first few months .A new ILCA was out of my budget (£4.5k), all of the 2nd hand ones within budget were not in great condition however during my search a very nice RS300 came up for sale. Always had my eye on one but not many come up for sale so this was too good an opportunity to pass up. I'm getting very familiar with the underneath of it, hence my avatar.
RobbieB
Super Anarchist
I think boats that have suffered this fate in the past were fairly low in numbers to begin with? Hard to imagine 200,000+ ILCA's going away. That said I'm sure Sears and kmart thought the same thing some years ago.
Alan Crawford
Super Anarchist
:lol:
Obsolete Olympic class like the Star? or, perhaps Firefly?
The Laser / ILCA was a great class long before it became Olympic and will remain a great class long after it stops being in the Olympics.
tillerman
Super Anarchist
The high price of ILCA boats may well encourage potential new boat buyers to consider other classes at similar or lower price points, but Laser sailing will survive at the grassroots level for many years. 200,000+ Lasers are not going to disappear overnight.
Last edited by a moderator:
Popeye_ali
New member
I don’t understand anyone’s concern for club level sailing.
what’s the worst case scenario, the ILCA’s have to sign on as ILCA’s and the “The laser class” boats have to sign on as lasers.
ultimately you are still racing each other!
at my club there is a mixture of people using third party sails like P&B or Rooster.
they all measure the same and are essentially the exact same without the “Colored button”.
what’s the worst case scenario, the ILCA’s have to sign on as ILCA’s and the “The laser class” boats have to sign on as lasers.
ultimately you are still racing each other!
at my club there is a mixture of people using third party sails like P&B or Rooster.
they all measure the same and are essentially the exact same without the “Colored button”.
Last edited by a moderator:
Popeye_ali
New member
200,000 Lasers and hardly any ILCAS if you want to be specific.
Many of those built by Laser performance in the UK.
Bruce Hudson
Super Anarchist
Last edited by a moderator:
Popeye_ali
New member
Well this contradicts what most say as many are of the opinion Laser performance are selling off old stock so these new boats are from before all this nonsense....
Also if Laser Performance have been building non compliant boats and inspections weren’t happening then many people sailing ISAF registered boats should have their results revoked and their plaques stripped! Hilarious
