ILCA gives LPE the boot... seeking new Laser builder

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,128
1,593
Charleston, SC
I am on my 4th Laser and still pay my Laser class dues to my local fleet 
How does that work?  What do "fleet" dues cover?  Is the fleet affiliated with a local club, (or number of clubs)?  Or, are you a group of true grass roots sailors that meet at a public boat launch for your outings/events?  Honestly, just curious.

 

Foredeck Shuffle

Super Anarchist
How does that work?  What do "fleet" dues cover?  Is the fleet affiliated with a local club, (or number of clubs)?  Or, are you a group of true grass roots sailors that meet at a public boat launch for your outings/events?  Honestly, just curious.
A fleet designation is required to be permitted to put on an event that is sanctioned by the ILCA, so the fleet pays a yearly due to the ILCA for that right.  I do not know if fleets pay towards their district, I'm guessing they do but do not know that for sure.  Nothing is free so I would guess there has to be some kind of yearly due.  Fleets put on their events and depending upon the size of the event, they may use resources from the fleet account to partially finance an event.  This is especially true of very large events where the cost per sailor would become prohibitive if they were to pay the actual cost with an entry fee.  Often local event costs are covered under your fleet dues and if someone travels to that fleet's event, they pay a nominal entry fee as a non fleet member.  And note this is something many classes do.  I was in a 505 fleet for a while and when they held NA's or Worlds, money was pulled from the account in the form of a grant to the event.  I'm sure others do something similar.

Laser associations are broken down into regions, districts, and fleets.  For regions and districts go to the below link, under the regions you will find the links for the district your fleet is located in and that link should have the fleets in your district.

http://www.laserinternational.org/contacts/

My district and fleet have unfortunate websites as I do not participate in Facebook/Meta so if they do not resend out announcements over email, which happens, I do not see it.

 
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RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,128
1,593
Charleston, SC
A fleet designation is required to be permitted to put on an event that is sanctioned by the ILCA, so the fleet pays a yearly due to the ILCA for that right.  I do not know if fleets pay towards their district, I'm guessing they do but do not know that for sure.  Nothing is free so I would guess there has to be some kind of yearly due.  Fleets put on their events and depending upon the size of the event, they may use resources from the fleet account to partially finance an event.  This is especially true of very large events where the cost per sailor would become prohibitive if they were to pay the actual cost with an entry fee.  Often local event costs are covered under your fleet dues and if someone travels to that fleet's event, they pay a nominal entry fee as a non fleet member.  And note this is something many classes do.  I was in a 505 fleet for a while and when they held NA's or Worlds, money was pulled from the account in the form of a grant to the event.  I'm sure others do something similar.

Laser associations are broken down into regions, districts, and fleets.  For regions and districts go to the below link, under the regions you will find the links for the district your fleet is located in and that link should have the fleets in your district.

http://www.laserinternational.org/contacts/

My district and fleet have unfortunate websites as I do not participate in Facebook/Meta so if they do not resend out announcements over email, which happens, I do not see it.
Interesting- I'm taking it you're not in the US?  We have Districts over here.  I'm currently, (and have been for a few years) the Secretary for ILCA-NA D12.  We pay no dues to ILCA outside of our individual membership fees.  All of our regattas have individual entry fees for boats paid by the sailor, (or their parents).  ILCA will provide some support for District expenses such as an annual schedule mailer and they have a coaching promotion going on now as long as you meet the pre-set criteria.  

Thanks for the insight.

 

Foredeck Shuffle

Super Anarchist
Interesting- I'm taking it you're not in the US?  We have Districts over here.  I'm currently, (and have been for a few years) the Secretary for ILCA-NA D12.  We pay no dues to ILCA outside of our individual membership fees.  All of our regattas have individual entry fees for boats paid by the sailor, (or their parents).  ILCA will provide some support for District expenses such as an annual schedule mailer and they have a coaching promotion going on now as long as you meet the pre-set criteria.  

Thanks for the insight.
I'm in District 11 and perhaps not all fleets collect dues?  I'm not going to name or price out anything because this thread is outright inflammatory and I like most everyone that participates in and that manages the fleets I travel to on the Bay.  I know of three fleets in District 11 that collect yearly dues.  But I also know that they each put on very nice open events, have prizes and trophies that are nice, some hand out water and take trash on the water, and some even have an open cooler or keg at times.  Laser open and high end events are some of the most civil sailing I have done in the eleven fleets I have been active in over the years.  So I have never seen their dues as a barrier.

The ILCA on the other hand, seeing as how it collects cash when you purchase a class legal autobailer,  boom block, or fairlead, feels like an unhelpful part of the class.  But I don't travel much right now so I don't have anything more to add to that.

 

Xeon

Anarchist
835
444
England
I’ve never heard of this happening in the uk. 
But then again it’s been 30 years since I was a class member and nearly five years since I sold my last Laser so I am not exactly in the loop. 

 

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,128
1,593
Charleston, SC
I'm in District 11 and perhaps not all fleets collect dues?  I'm not going to name or price out anything because this thread is outright inflammatory and I like most everyone that participates in and that manages the fleets I travel to on the Bay.  I know of three fleets in District 11 that collect yearly dues.  But I also know that they each put on very nice open events, have prizes and trophies that are nice, some hand out water and take trash on the water, and some even have an open cooler or keg at times.  Laser open and high end events are some of the most civil sailing I have done in the eleven fleets I have been active in over the years.  So I have never seen their dues as a barrier.

The ILCA on the other hand, seeing as how it collects cash when you purchase a class legal autobailer,  boom block, or fairlead, feels like an unhelpful part of the class.  But I don't travel much right now so I don't have anything more to add to that.
Ok.  I think I follow now.  Here- Yacht Clubs host events.  We don't have designated fleets, (like fleet 11 in Charleston, SC like J24's do) but we do have groups that are typically associated with a club.  So, when clubs host events they charge entry fees which typically run around $50.00 per sailor.  This covers all sailing, grounds use, RC support, water on the course, morning breakfast spreads and 1 dinner.  I can see the fleet model working for places that have public water access without a yacht club involved.  Is that the case in your district?

 

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,128
1,593
Charleston, SC
Posted one hour ago on their Facebook page:

After an extensive evaluation process analyzing every single detail of the boat both on and off the water we are glad to announce that The Laser is officially being produced in Portugal! 

#laser #laserperformanceboats #laserperformance

View attachment 472285
Wow- they built 4!  Only enough money for even bow numbers I guess?  Must not have had a #7 lying around...

 

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,128
1,593
Charleston, SC
Just trolling for lemmings who think a $10K boat built using an ancient design, materials and techniques is cheap, that hidden fees are a good thing, and have a love for a bloated bureaucracy forever sucking up to an equally incompetent and moronic  WS!  That it is so easy to rile you nutters up with simple truths is a never ending source of amusement.
You are so right.  Wonder what the folks in the Sunfish class are thinking these days......?

 

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,128
1,593
Charleston, SC
Do you really think that Devoti or Ovington did an extensive evaluation process analyzing every single detail of the boat both on and off the water, or do you think they took the build manual and tried to build in accordance with that? Long and short - no amount of analysis of the boat on and/or off the water means anything if you have to build in accordance with the build manual.
Well they didn't but ILCA made them build and then cut apart 10 hulls to make sure they were all consistent and within the build manual tolerances.

 

JimC

Not actually an anarchist.
8,146
1,020
South East England
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Bill5

Super Anarchist
2,656
2,130
Western Canada
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Foredeck Shuffle

Super Anarchist
Are you sure they do that? See http://www.laserinternational.org/blog/2020/08/24/overview-of-ilca-finances/ There's an awful lot of fake news on the subject of CA royalties. Don't forget one characteristic of a troll is that they make up stuff.
After reading the details thoroughly the transparency is refreshing.  I have dug around the site before and didn't find these pages.  This is positive and I guess the current management knows the value of posting information like this.

I didn't see anything that indicates that the ILCA takes income from the sale of parts, so it's correct to say there are none except the vang which is only $7 (how odd), spars, foils, and obviously the hull.  I also support the class sails being a 100% mark up, the class needs cash to operate and practice sails are permitted in most beer can style racing at clubs so everyone gets what they need there.

There are still the issues of substandard blocks and their availability (easily solved by using off the shelf blocks), sail design, and a rig that is sorely in need of modernization.  Hopefully some day a single handed, modern design boat comes along that people realize is worth switching to, at least where ever I live.  I could handle having both and traveling the Laser when I really want a big fleet.  Just tired of the Laser but want a good one design single handed boat.

 

Foredeck Shuffle

Super Anarchist
The comments by @Foredeck Shuffle struck a chord. Exactly what I was feeling back in 2014.
Chesapeake Bay, was in Annapolis for 25+ years which is known as the place old one designs go to die.  The only new OD's that come into Annapolis early are pre-pended with a J/.

I have test sailed an RS Aero 7 & 9, loved the 9, understand the 7.  Only thing about that boat I would change is the vang to a gnav.

I tried a Melges 14 as well and it was wonderful in a slightly different way than the Aero.  It felt more powerful, the Aero more nimble and responsive.  But it fails with the sleeved sail compared to the Aero, and it also should also have been a gnav rather than a vang.

Both boats could have had a better designed mast that was more responsive but both are 40 years better than a 2021 XD carbon race Laser.

Alas there is only a single M14 and no Aero's on the Bay.  At my current club I have a standing offer to buy an Aero the same day anyone decides to buy one as well.  Until then I do things like this when OD is not an option.  There is no clew strap on the C8 because I hadn't cut one yet, a bit larger than the Laser clew strap.

IMG_0152.JPG

IMG_2124.JPG

 
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Looper

Anarchist
Just took delivery of my new 2021 Zim ILCA on Saturday.  Initial impressions is that the boat is really good, finish is excellent, and comes with all the fun goodies.

 
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tillerman

Super Anarchist
5,061
2,405
Rhode Island
Chesapeake Bay, was in Annapolis for 25+ years which is known as the place old one designs go to die.  The only new OD's that come into Annapolis early are pre-pended with a J/.

I have test sailed an RS Aero 7 & 9, loved the 9, understand the 7.  Only thing about that boat I would change is the vang to a gnav...

Alas there are no Aero's on the Bay.  At my current club I have a standing offer to buy an Aero the same day anyone decides to buy one as well.  
Yeah. I am aware that Chesapeake Bay, including Annapolis, is a bit of an Aero desert. Shame. Would be a great place to host a fleet.

I was lucky in being able to persuade two friends to join me in buying Aeros back in 2015. In the meantime, your offer to buy an Aero if anyone in the club decides to join you is probably the next best thing. Good luck!

Or you could try and persuade folk in your club to charter RS Aeros for a week of racing in Florida this winter. https://www.rsaerosailing.org/index.asp?p=event&eid=2261

 
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