2019 hull, so assume licensed laser.
ILCA gives LPE the boot... seeking new Laser builder
- Thread starter Wess
- Start date
Wess
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #11,682
No, the only thing Kirby made was the sticker that he put on a Laser LOL. I got the belt and T-shirt (and a hat but I don't think they sold those). He was never going to make the boat. Kinda a shame as he was unique in being able to actually do that under the old agreements. He coulda and shoulda launched the Torch as an affordable "generic" Laser that would have been class legal. But alas he was all talk and no walk and never did.
Foredeck Shuffle
More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
From emails I sent to Kirby when I asked for permission to create 50 pairs of the Torch logos and distribute them is that he requested for one Laser in 2014 to have an ILCA plaque withheld and a Torch plaque with the Torch label and logo on the hull. It was a Laser, that was the point. I suspect the real plaque was held aside until the publicity stunt was over. Where did it go, what was the hull vin?
The Torch logo was marketing genius. An Olympic class with an olympic looking logo. It was a clear shot across the bow of LP and the ILCA and in his marketing release he was clear that he wanted the builders to get back to the business of building boats and parts no matter what was going on in the courts.
The value of a Laser is the OD class. Not some 50 year old design built to 50 year old standards. No one wants a generic Laser that costs almost exactly what a real Laser costs but loses almost all of its value the moment it is sold because... ...no one wants it. Laser's suck, they are out of date and have been eclipsed by dozens of designs.
Even if you built a Laser in Myanmar (current lowest cost manufacturing country at the moment), the cost of raw materials would still not make it cheap and the boat would have all the baggage of a boat built in Myanmar. And it would not have the OD class behind it, the only real value of a Laser.
RobbieB
Super Anarchist
Considering a very nice Finn is $25k,(not sure that includes mast and/or sail) the ILCA is not priced poorly. Having sailed a Finn I'd drop $25k on one if I had the disposable income. I think the price for a pretty nice used Finn is around $10k. It's definitely way more boat than an ILCA is.
RobbieB
Super Anarchist
Was it one of those cool purple national event level hats they used to include in the registration package? Those were great.
Foredeck Shuffle
More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
I think the Laser is priced appropriately. It's Wess that somehow thinks a non ILCA plaqued boat will drop to some incredibly low price. He's mistaking what a generic Laser sells for on the street five seconds after LP sells it to you.
I never liked what the ILCA did with Kirby or really the class. This is an old conversation you and I had posts about. I thought the class waiting years to take action left class members on the limb. I know they are just volunteers flowing in and out of positions, but since they are sailing the boat and were finding it hard to find parts some years I wondered why action was not taken sooner and the class waited until Kirby started the lawsuit train, for minds to focus.
We are on the same side of this discussion.
Bill5
Right now
“All talk and no walk”? You drinking again? His beef was royalties, of which he was very vocal, and he sued the shit out of LP. Clearly he talked and walked.
maxstaylock
Anarchist
- 749
- 462
Talking about Laser Performance legendary build quality: I have a 2012 Laser that came with a GRP daggerboard that has a band of clear resin at the top, it looks good but unfortunately the gelcoat is peeling of in sheets, its not bonded to the laminate at all. Don't think the PO used it, but kept it nice for selling, I thought I was buying a boat with a good racing daggerboard. Damn. Is this a known common problem, or did I just get a Friday afternoon board?
Foredeck Shuffle
More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
You are garbage.
Bill5
Right now
Why do you think he did not proceed? Did he have a record of this type of behaviour? Examples? Was he in it just to sell a few wallets? Seems to me you have the ability to speak with people posthumously. At least you did with Ian Bruce. Why don’t you get out your ouija board and ask Bruce if he was disingenuous with the Torch?
Wess
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #11,696
Wow so much drama from a simple statement that an Ovi ILCA ready to race and delivered was over $10k? And from there to a Torch. Which again simple facts… Kirby said he would launch, Kirby had the ability to launch, and Kirby didn’t launch. Sorry if that offends any lawnmowers or flat earth Canadians. 🤣
I think maybe you guys take this place waayyy to seriously. Have some rum. Just buy cheap rum so you can afford an ILCA!!
I think maybe you guys take this place waayyy to seriously. Have some rum. Just buy cheap rum so you can afford an ILCA!!
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Bill5
Right now
Why do you suppose he didn’t launch?
Because he won in court ? 😀
VWAP
Super Anarchist
JimC
Not actually an anarchist.
Change of guard in the exec I think. The arguably european focussed Heini Wellman/Jeff Martin era exec apparently saw Laser Performance as essential , hence the railroading through of the fundamental rule change that sold Kirby down the river and kept LP as a builder in spite of their self imposed contractual difficulties. A few more years of being messed about, and a change to a US based exec (where Laser sailors had been particularly poorly served) and the next contract breach by LP was seized on.
The Jo Richards case seems to have been settled. There's not much publicly available that I can see except this:-
and this
Its kinda familiar reading!
The whole thing seems to have been over in 8 months - what a contrast to US law - and it is evident that LP have stopped building the Jo Richards designs.
