ILCA gives LPE the boot... seeking new Laser builder

Gouvernail

Lottsa people don’t know I’m famous
38,243
5,731
Austin Texas
You must be good at that twister game!
Twister??

DFCE1BF1-EDAD-4E15-BD34-5D1306C0E4D6.jpeg
 

Bill5

Right now
2,900
2,441
Western Canada
You folks really do crack me up with your inability to face facts.

Its ain't ILCA doing it, it ain't 20%, and the money ain't going to build from the bottom (club sailor) up or to improve access. Its NA doing it, it still ain't 20% and a significant portion of it is going to "Grand Prix" regattas that the vast majority of club sailors ain't going to.

Its a bit like saying you won a bet when 1.) it wasn't "soon" (it was years), 2.) the boats ain't cheaper (they are FAR more expensive), and 3.) you STILL don't have a US manufacturer half a decade or so later.
ILCA NA is doing it which is why I used ILCA NA numbers. Using any other metric doesn’t make a lot of sense.
ILCA NA 2022 budgeted income: $95,700

20,000/95,700 = .2089

I would be very interested in seeing your responses to some questions:

1) What is a grassroots sailor?
2) If you had $20,000 to spend on ILCA activities, what would you do?
3) Budget numbers for ILCA and NA ILCA are online. Where do you see fat/waste in these numbers?
 

Gouvernail

Lottsa people don’t know I’m famous
38,243
5,731
Austin Texas
ILCA NA is doing it which is why I used ILCA NA numbers. Using any other metric doesn’t make a lot of sense.
ILCA NA 2022 budgeted income: $95,700

20,000/95,700 = .2089

I would be very interested in seeing your responses to some questions:

1) What is a grassroots sailor?
2) If you had $20,000 to spend on ILCA activities, what would you do?
3) Budget numbers for ILCA and NA ILCA are online. Where do you see fat/waste in these numbers?
In 2000 the NA gross income was about $130,000
Considering seeing inflation that is about $224,000 today.
You can correct 2000 numbers to today’s numbers by multiplying by 1.76

In 2000 dollars:
We passed about $20,000 if international dues straight through
Vanguard sent us about $20,000 to give a one year free membership to every buyer of a new Laser
About $10,000 was returned to the various district secretaries to fund local newsletters
Most of the rest went to creating and distributing the quarterly newsletter
All this is from memory. You can find all the financial reports in the online newsletter archives


Anyway…. I have no idea how anyone could do a decent job of running the NA Class association today with under $200,000 in revenue.
 

Gouvernail

Lottsa people don’t know I’m famous
38,243
5,731
Austin Texas
@Gouvernail - how many members were there in 2000?
September 1999 …about 1700
The class membership number grew for 35 consecutive months until the end of July 2002 to a total of 3106
** As of august 1, 2002 I was no longer employed by the class. Knowing James Appel was finishing up his commitments in the sales department of Vanguard, I continued to process memberships sending out membership cards, bumper stickers, transom stickers, and a copy of the current newsletter as applications continued to arrive.
James plan was to begin running the Class office out of a sandwich shop in Annapolis sometime in October or November 2002.
Someone, not James, put a forwarding address on the austin address and Laser Class was delivered to the unattended until late October address starting sometime in late August 2002.
At that time, paid membership had reached 3145.

I should add: In 2002 no one from the Class attended CORK and therefore no one signed up the hundreds of sailors for their annual membership. Generally CORK had about 300 Lasers, Radials, and Laser >> entered. Generally, about a third were new members and the rest were renewals.
The class missed out on $12,000 of its usual revenue and, for the short term lost 300, mostly Canadian, members.
 
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RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,186
1,695
Charleston, SC
You must be good at that twister game!
Good Morning Wess- My brother-in-law was digging through his dad's collection of books and came across the 1973 edition of "Sailboat & Sailboat Equipment Directory" published by SAIL Magazine. Once you get past the initial depression over what has become of the sailboat industry it is nice to take the trip down memory lane. Just so happens the Laser is in it and listed just below the Sunfish, (see pic). At the time the Sunfish was the established single-handed racing dingy of the time having been around for 20 years. The Laser was priced 29% higher than the Sunfish. Now - the new Sunfish comes in at $6800.00, (when equipped comparable to the new ILCA). The ILCA, (which is now an Olympic boat, has over 220,000 boats built in 20 years less time than the fish and has more class members - Sunfish had 1500 members globally in 2004) at $9,800.00 is now 44% more than the Sunfish and has certainly developed in the way of upgrades that would easily support the additional 15% of "inflation" over the fish, (which has increased over 1,000% since 1973). So much for the dream of boats getting cheaper, (sorry LP has achieved that) I mean, less expensive...

ILCA VS Sunfish.jpg
 

Wess

Super Anarchist
But yet it was you that said it would be less expensive after FRAND and me who said it wouldn’t be…

Anyway land yachting and exploring mountains, red rock, and canyons this month so no sailing! Lots of rum by the fireplace though!
 

pqbon

Member
387
151
Cambridge UK
Good Morning Wess- My brother-in-law was digging through his dad's collection of books and came across the 1973 edition of "Sailboat & Sailboat Equipment Directory" published by SAIL Magazine. Once you get past the initial depression over what has become of the sailboat industry it is nice to take the trip down memory lane. Just so happens the Laser is in it and listed just below the Sunfish, (see pic). At the time the Sunfish was the established single-handed racing dingy of the time having been around for 20 years. The Laser was priced 29% higher than the Sunfish. Now - the new Sunfish comes in at $6800.00, (when equipped comparable to the new ILCA). The ILCA, (which is now an Olympic boat, has over 220,000 boats built in 20 years less time than the fish and has more class members - Sunfish had 1500 members globally in 2004) at $9,800.00 is now 44% more than the Sunfish and has certainly developed in the way of upgrades that would easily support the additional 15% of "inflation" over the fish, (which has increased over 1,000% since 1973). So much for the dream of boats getting cheaper, (sorry LP has achieved that) I mean, less expensive...

View attachment 558575
Can you post more from this -- I'd love to see the Banshee entry.
 

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,186
1,695
Charleston, SC
But yet it was you that said it would be less expensive after FRAND and me who said it wouldn’t be…

I'll "fess up" to this one. It was naive of me to consider that as nothing in life has become less expensive. Exception would be the LPE Laser which was offered sub $4k as a hail mary F.U. to ILCA, but clearly didn't pan out... Outside of the recent delivery to the "obscure championships" have any other boats been delivered elsewhere in the last 6 months? I know it kills you, but the ILCA has prevailed through the mess and is alive and well and MUCH better off.
 

Wess

Super Anarchist
It doesn’t kill me at all. Just fun busting chops in this place. I mean I would rather see the class focus on grass roots and cheaper boats versus Olympics and masters but hey it is what it is. But nice to see you admit I won that part of the bet. And I assume you agree you STILL don’t have NA builder.
 

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,186
1,695
Charleston, SC
And I assume you agree you STILL don’t have NA builder.
Yes- but I don't believe the NA builder is a dead issue yet. However, we're up to 6 or 7 now in total builders. I, (and I believe everyone else) consider that a big win over the previous arrangement. No one is building cheaper anything's now so that's out the window. Based on what I'm hearing the new ILCA-NA Chair has a focus on District level, (which I consider grass roots) support. I'm assuming we'll hear from him when he gets back from the world council meeting.
 

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