Illegal C420 at Nationals

martin 'hoff

Super Anarchist
If my son/daughter said to me “Dad, I am going to quit sailing. I find the C420 does not meet or exceed my performance requirements”, my response would not be nurturing.
If your son/daughter is actively sailing a C420 for several years, you might find it a good idea to give him/her access (open as to how) to something more fun and exciting as well.

If the club/coach isn't doing it, and you have a friend who owns some other boat -Something fun, exciting, or just different – get them on that.

The "dead end" road seems to be clubs / coaches / families that have kids sail the same boat for years and years. The kid might not be able to articulate "this has gotten boring" but they'll slot it in a mental box of something that's kind of stuck because they are kind of stuck. So when it's time to move on, they'll move on.


Right now
Western Canada
How many kids quit sailing because of the C420? How many kids quit sailing because they prefer another activity? Sailing is a very unique sport, but several studies show that up to 85% of kids quit sports by the time they are 17. Why would sailing be different (real question)?

Foredeck Shuffle

More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
If one were to put carbon spars and laminate sails on the C420, and even an assy, would that make a difference in interest level/enjoyment?
And, as Steve Clark pointed out, there are faster more hi-tech boats available. Just need a bunch of money.
Anyway - the equipment discussion of sport vs sport is difficult and the way I commented on it was awkward. Kids literally grow out of their gear, sometimes multiple times in a year. And there are dozens of choices in skis, bikes and the like, i.e. there is no one design. And the reason kids quit sailing has been beaten to death in a number of threads, but the C420 can’t be held accountable that much. And kids quit lots of sports all the time.

If I were limited in the manner you've outlined I would have stayed with mountain biking, surfing, and snow boarding which I can do as I age. My gear gets refreshed regularly and every time the experience improves. I cannot say enough about how much different my 90's snow boards are from the 00's to the most recent one I picked up, they each have made it easier to do and at faster speeds. For some reason I have kept around my early 90's road bike and mountain bike, they are significantly heavier, clunkier, more prone to break down, faster, easier, funner. Even surf boards have progressed and a newer board is very different from the two boards I keep around that were my first "new" boards, not just new to me.

Kids see and know the difference, do not mistake them for stupid and unaware. Or do so and they will silently disappear to do something else.


Super Anarchist
We intended the boat to be cost effective and easily maintained as club owned fleets to make learning the skills like trapezing, flying spinnakers and planing independent of buying a boat. This was intended to open sailing up to more people regardless of their wealth.

In conclusion, the Club 420 is a pretty good boat for what it was intended to do: teach kids how to sail trapeze dinghies. If you insist on trying to do more, it gets less and less satisfactory.

I agree that you guys nailed the target, and the fact that the number of boats has grown to the point where you can get 40 boat fleets of kids learning how sail/race with trapeze and spinnakers, and the boats don't wear out, is the original intent.


Super Anarchist
You know it's going poorly for your brand when you get other people's company-killing scandals misattributed to you. This C420 situation was a PS2000 issue, not an LP issue. PS2000 was owned by Sturgis, which needed to go chapter 11 and was sold for parts to handle the blowback.

My comment was in response to what was potentially going to come out of the 2019 debacle, where someone wrote that there was hope that LP would build C420's to fill the need. The reality is different.

We have Vanguard C420s and Zim 420s in our club's fleet. Our Vanguard C420s were pushed aside because they weren't the newest in the park, but the more I look at the 2-3 boats that are present, I think a little TLC would make them shine.

Dex Sawash

Demi Anarchrist
My kids quit sports at exactly the age they developed self-awareness that they were not actually the star of the team being held back by the coaches and other participants (10ish yo). They realized they were not on any pathway. They were unable to find a sports system that fit particular skills and goals ( not that they could identify personal goals, just frustration).

Steamflyer's system of here's some equipment lets have fun with it and build basic competence at the same time may have made them life participants (maybe not but every system spits out some)

Latest posts