Illegal C420 at Nationals

[Dex Sawash]

Why won't anyone say who built the boats? If they are illegal isn't it a public disservice not to say who built them?

 

[tillerman]

Why won't anyone say who built the boats? If they are illegal isn't it a public disservice not to say who built them?

Post #3 in this thread says it's PS2000.

 

[Ross]

word is they're PS2000 boats that were infused instead of open moulded: 
https://www.facebook.com/ZIMSAILING/posts/10155489128882395?comment_tracking={"tn"%3A"O"}

Refresh me, when did PS2000 fold up, and who bought them, where did the molds go, etc?

 

[mad]

word is they're PS2000 boats that were infused instead of open moulded: 
https://www.facebook.com/ZIMSAILING/posts/10155489128882395?comment_tracking={"tn"%3A"O"}

I have absolutely no issue with a builder choosing infusion over open moulding, it’s far healthier for the workforce and environment, your neighbours will also thank you for it as well. 

Open moulding is archaic!! 

 

[mad]

Do the infused boats actually sail differently? Is the panel stiffness different?

There isn’t a reason in the world an infused laminate cannot be designed to have the same panel stiffness and weight distribution as a hand laid laminate .

in fact, I bet the manufacturing processes for the hand laid boats vary greatly. 

Some may wet out the materials on a separate table. Some may wet out the gelcoat and work resin up through the fiberglass. Some may place the glass against the gelcoat and soak the resin through that glass. Some may do a combination of the above. 

Some may have counters on the resin pumps and use a defined amount of resin on each piece of glass. Others may do it by eye. 

Some may use thickness guages. Others may use tinted resins and color chart comparisons.

Unless the infused boats are outside the expected ranges on weight and panel stiffness, I see no reason they cannot share the race course with hand laid boats. 

If infused and monolithic, the parts will have a higher fibre content and be a little lighter.  However the laminate will be thinner due to consolidation and therefore not be quite as stiff.

It’s a playoff. 

To add 

Every single one design class that has more than one or more builders ends with the reputation where one always builds a better boat. 

J-boats, Mumm/Farr 36, 30. Farr 40, Etchells, Star, Dragon, Daring. Take your pick. 

 

[Bruce Hudson]

There is an interview on Sailing Illustrated where one of the competitors says that honeycomb was used, and the illegal boats are 30 lbs lighter.

 

[Dex Sawash]

Post #3 in this thread says it's PS2000.

Fuck me, I thought PS2000 must be some sort of resin.

 

[mad]

There is an interview on Sailing Illustrated where one of the competitors says that honeycomb was used, and the illegal boats are 30 lbs lighter.

Fuck!!

That’s pretty blatant and not really that economic either. 

 

[mad]

Zim boats don't have anything to do with the situation.  Another manufacturer produced boats that were out of spec by class rules.  Zim did not.

Gouv - I think when the issue comes to light, you'll see it's a lot more than just a different way that the boats were produced 

You can bend the rules in most classes if you want to, it’s human nature. 

Especially, if the governing body isn’t up to speed. Just simple  ply orientation and optimisation  will get you a better boat. 

 

[Ross]

How wold are these boats in question? PS2000 has been dead a few years, no?

 

[tillerman]

Refresh me, when did PS2000 fold up, and who bought them, where did the molds go, etc?

According to minutes of the Club 420 Association Directors Meetings, PS2000 transferred its assets to Kaon in 2012.

Looks like Kaon is now part of Wake Marine.

https://club420.org/assets/documents/other_docs/2012-03-BoardMinutes.pdf
https://club420.org/assets/documents/other_docs/2014-07-BoardMinutes.pdf
https://club420.org/assets/documents/other_docs/Club420_April_2017_minutesv2.pdf

 

[JMP]

How wold are these boats in question? PS2000 has been dead a few years, no?

Seems you can still buy them through Sturgis, so someone's building them: http://sturgisboatworks.com/new-boats/

 

[Ross]

According to minutes of the Club 420 Association Directors Meetings, PS2000 transferred its assets to Kaon in 2012.

Looks like Kaon is now part of Wake Marine.

https://club420.org/assets/documents/other_docs/2012-03-BoardMinutes.pdf
https://club420.org/assets/documents/other_docs/2014-07-BoardMinutes.pdf
https://club420.org/assets/documents/other_docs/Club420_April_2017_minutesv2.pdf

Can't seem to find a site for Wake Marine, defunct as well?

So, these PS2000 boats are at least 7 years old by now. Surely  could have been measured before this incident at Nat's?

 

[tillerman]

Dumb question.  Is it possible to pick up the difference between a vacuum infused hull vs an open moulded one purely by inspecting it or measuring it? If so, how?

Or is this ban based on some information from the builders about the process they used?

 

[tillerman]

Can't seem to find a site for Wake Marine, defunct as well?

So, these PS2000 boats are at least 7 years old by now. Surely  could have been measured before this incident at Nat's?

I see that a couple of local dealers, Sturgis Boatworks and Boat Locker, are offering new PS2000 C420s on their websites.
 

 

[Locus]

Well they have a facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/PS2000usa/

Nice picture of all those 420s on the grass. Wonder how many are illegal 

Website link on FB goes to the default web host page. 

http://www.ps2000usa.com/

 

[Ross]

Well they have a facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/PS2000usa/

Nice picture of all those 420s on the grass. Wonder how many are illegal 

I saw that, considering last post was from 8/17, and the website the link is dead, I figured the company has moved on.

 

[JMP]

I saw that, considering last post was from 8/17, and the website the link is dead, I figured the company has moved on.

The street address from the PS2000 facebook page is Sturgis Boat Works

 

[Gouvernail]

Latest news I have:

The infusion  boats are both stiffer and lighter. 

They can probably  be used in a school setting but they can’t ever compete 

rumor has it  some of the hotshots had some of those boats so action had to be quick and fair.  

 

[VWAP]

Accurate official information should be coming out in the next day or so. 

Very interesting afternoon.