Illegal C420 at Nationals

[Major Tom]

There is an interview on Sailing Illustrated where one of the competitors says that honeycomb was used, and the illegal boats are 30 lbs lighter.

They probably used Soric, which is an infusion medium , in place of coremat which is probably specified in the build manual. The infusion resin flows through the honey comb lattice of the Soric and the centre of each cell is a similar construction to coremat. To an uneducated eye it looks like honey comb, but in reality honey comb would never be used in infusion because every cell would be filled with neat resin which would make the laminate much heavier than a coremat laminate.

 

[BlatantEcho]

They probably used Soric, which is an infusion medium , in place of coremat which is probably specified in the build manual. The infusion resin flows through the honey comb lattice of the Soric and the centre of each cell is a similar construction to coremat. To an uneducated eye it looks like honey comb, but in reality honey comb would never be used in infusion because every cell would be filled with neat resin which would make the laminate much heavier than a coremat laminate.

Ding Ding Ding.  Second informed post of the thread!

--

For the rest of you.... PS2000 420 molds were in Indonesia (where PS2000 built their boats).
Those molds were purchased by Sturgis 5-6 years ago and moved to China.  They have been selling PS2000 420s for a while now as 'faster' boats, mostly to private customers who.
A lot of familes bought boats in the last few years from PS2000 hoping to gain an edge for their kids (that's another issue for another thread). 

Now people know why....

49 boats at least are not class legal, and more investigation going on, potentially more.
Most are demanding full refunds, and we'll see how it works out. Boats either go to the landfill, or to clubs that don't care about class legal.

Class playing it close to vest, but the truth will come out soon it would appear.
Haven't seen an official note from Sturgis yet.  They are good guys overall, but, this is pretty bad looking from the outside.

 

[Dex Sawash]

Doesn't most c420 racing happen on supplied equipment that never leaves the host institution and the hulls are effectively quarrantined? Seems that bulldozing the hulls is a little alarmist. The solution doesn't have to be a complete disaster for the builder. 

 

[Major Tom]

Doesn't most c420 racing happen on supplied equipment that never leaves the host institution and the hulls are effectively quarrantined? Seems that bulldozing the hulls is a little alarmist. The solution doesn't have to be a complete disaster for the builder. 

Yea, makes sense if they are owned by an organization and used specifically for team racing. If, however, they have been bought by private individuals then there is a good chance they have all been treated very differently to each other, some might be mint, and some might be trashed. In spite of this I am sure that a great deal could be put together for a school for a flight of these non class legal  boats to be used for training and team racing.

 

[Alan Crawford]

https://club420.org/news/article/club-420-association-statement-on-non-conforming-equipment

 

[Dex Sawash]

A really difficult situation there, the class has FRANDled it well

 

[European Bloke]

So the class say those boats aren't part of the class.  Good for them.

Now the owners and builder have to sort the next step out.  They don't sound fixable.

 

[dgmckim]

A really difficult situation there, the class has FRANDled it well

Now that’s funny right there

 

[Major Tom]

They will still have a value to someone, feel sorry for someone buying a boat with a plaque, not knowing the boat was not built to spec, or someone buying one of these boats second hand,  they have in effect been conned and could threaten the builder for fraudulently putting illegal boats on the market.

 

[spankoka]

I don't know anything about the Indonesian legal system, but I'm guessing it's not really worthwhile suing for ones illegal 420.

 

[BlatantEcho]

I don't know anything about the Indonesian legal system, but I'm guessing it's not really worthwhile suing for ones illegal 420.

JFC. What in god's green earth are you blathering about?

a) PS2000 boats are built in China.

b) The infused boats were built to the spec provided to the contract manufacturer.  Sounds like they built what they were asked to build.  Who would have a legal claim against the contract manufacturer for doing what they were paid to do?

 

[BlatantEcho]

Doesn't most c420 racing happen on supplied equipment that never leaves the host institution and the hulls are effectively quarrantined? Seems that bulldozing the hulls is a little alarmist. The solution doesn't have to be a complete disaster for the builder. 

That Rolex you bought and paid top dollar for from a guy who said it was definitely a Rolex --well turns out -- it's not 'really' a Rolex.  Surprise!
But it still tells time, so it shouldn't be an issue for the builder right?

Uh, no, that's not how this is going to go down at ALL.

 

[dgmckim]

JFC. What in god's green earth are you blathering about?

a) PS2000 boats are built in China.

b) The infused boats were built to the spec provided to the contract manufacturer.  Sounds like they built what they were asked to build.  Who would have a legal claim against the contract manufacturer for doing what they were paid to do?

the only cause for recourse would be if the boats were marketed and sold as class-legal boats and were determined later to be class-illegal. then the question would be where the decision was made to produce illegal boats as to who is at fault. If the customers KNEW they were getting illegal boats, well, there's little recourse for them. not a good situation to be in.

 

[Major Tom]

the only cause for recourse would be if the boats were marketed and sold as class-legal boats and were determined later to be class-illegal. then the question would be where the decision was made to produce illegal boats as to who is at fault. If the customers KNEW they were getting illegal boats, well, there's little recourse for them. not a good situation to be in.

If they had measurement plaques on then that means they were to all intents and purpose class legal boats

 

[winchfodder]

How come the Laser class haven't done the same to the dodgy Australian lasers that were identified by Performance Sailcraft (didn't they buy one and chop it up?) 

 

[tillerman]

How come the Laser class haven't done the same to the dodgy Australian lasers that were identified by Performance Sailcraft (didn't they buy one and chop it up?) 

I thought that the Laser class decided that the "dodgy" Australian Lasers were actually nicer than the legal Lasers being built by the English builder, so they decided that every builder would do things the Australian way.

Why doesn't the C420 Class do the same thing?

 

[JMP]

How come the Laser class haven't done the same to the dodgy Australian lasers that were identified by Performance Sailcraft (didn't they buy one and chop it up?) 

Chris from PSA elaborated on this issue on a recent facebook post:

 

[SCARECROW]

Why doesn't the C420 Class do the same thing?

A smart solution would be to implement a change to allow infused hulls over a period of time, say 18 months.  Come up with A, B and C events  ie club races etc are C up to Nationals being A.  Infused boats are legal in C events now, B events in 6 months, A events in 18 months.  The current boats can be shelved for this period but retain some value.  The quality of boats across the fleet will improve.

 

[Gouvernail]

I don’t agree. The club 420 as a personal boat lasts a very long time. Kids in Texas who  are third owners are winning big regattas. 

Lighter stiffer boats would render all the old ones to the junk pile. 

 

[Bruce Hudson]

I thought that the Laser class decided that the "dodgy" Australian Lasers were actually nicer than the legal Lasers being built by the English builder, so they decided that every builder would do things the Australian way.

Why doesn't the C420 Class do the same thing?

The main difference was that with the Laser, they didn't perform any different, they just lasted longer.

With the C420 they are about 30lbs lighter, stiffer and faster.

^^ What @JMP said above. ^^