In Tom Hanks commencement speech to Harvard grads he urged to defend the truth.

Goodvibes

Goodvibes

under the southern cross I stand ...
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Fah Kiew Tu said:
But there's still only XX and XY and it doesn't matter what you think, you're one or the other (vanishingly rare exceptions stipulated).
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So your training was a very long time ago, before the HGP.

An organism is not formed from the genes, but the expression on them, combinations of them. Genes can be present but not switched on.

A piano has only a few keys, but the variations of music it can produce is endless.
 
Raz'r

Raz'r

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Meat Wad said:
He will probably be cancelled, especially if he says "The truth is, there are only 2 sexes."

I watched Otto the other day. Kinda felt sorry for the old codger, Otto, not Tom.
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There are 2 sexes, but there is also intersex. Sometimes the genes get messed up and some people are born with both parts.

But you really wanted a "gotcha" on gender, didn't you?
 
Israel Hands

Israel Hands

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Goodvibes said:
There is only the known facts, supported by science.

The rest are just beliefs, not truths.
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There are only the known facts...

This is the problem I have with people saying that their gender pronoun is "they." No it isn't. You are not plural - you are singular. Can't we at least be united on subject-verb agreement? :p
 
Raz'r

Raz'r

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Goodvibes said:
So your training was a very long time ago, before the HGP.

An organism is not formed from the genes, but the expression on them, combinations of them. Genes can be present but not switched on.

A piano has only a few keys, but the variations of music it can produce is endless.
Click to expand...
Confusing "sex" and "gender" again, are we?
 
G

Gissie

Super Anarchist
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Raz'r said:
Sex and Gender have extremely well adopted definitions. Changing words to meet your "truth" isn't truth. It's just more bullshit.
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Oh no, another one with outdated ideas. Forcing his/her truth on others. The sooner you old colonialist culture wreakers die off the better for us all.
 
F

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
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boomer said:
So ignore that percentage of which you speak - born with both male and female genitalia

The Myth Of Biological Sex

How many times have you seen a woman who sounded,appeared and had all the characteristics like a guy or vice a versa. I remember the first time back in the late 50s or early 60s, I saw such at a Shell gas station when I was a kid, when I took in money to pay the attendant who was a woman, dressed like a man, yet had characteristics of both a man and a woman. I went back to the car to leave, and commented to my Mom, "is she a man or a woman." My Mom replied, " a bit of both."

The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic

"Sex can be much more complicated than it at first seems. According to the simple scenario, the presence or absence of a Y chromosome is what counts: with it, you are male, and without it, you are female. But doctors have long known that some people straddle the boundary - their sex chromosomes say one thing, but their gonads (ovaries or testes) or sexual anatomy say another. Parents of children with these kinds of conditions - known as intersex conditions, or differences or disorders of sex development (DSDs) - often face difficult decisions about whether to bring up their child as a boy or a girl. Some researchers now say that as many as 1 person in 100 has some form of DSD."

"A 46-year-old pregnant woman had visited his clinic at the Royal Melbourne Hospital in Australia to hear the results of an amniocentesis test to screen her baby's chromosomes for abnormalities. The baby was fine - but follow-up tests had revealed something astonishing about the mother. Her body was built of cells from two individuals, probably from twin embryos that had merged in her own mother's womb. And there was more. One set of cells carried two X chromosomes, the complement that typically makes a person female; the other had an X and a Y. Halfway through her fifth decade and pregnant with her third child, the woman learned for the first time that a large part of her body was chromosomally male."

"For many years, scientists believed that female development was the default programme, and that male development was actively switched on by the presence of a particular gene on the Y chromosome. In 1990, researchers made headlines when they uncovered the identity of this gene, which they called SRY. Just by itself, this gene can switch the gonad from ovarian to testicular development. For example, XX individuals who carry a fragment of the Y chromosome that contains SRY develop as males."


"By the turn of the millennium, however, the idea of femaleness being a passive default option had been toppled by the discovery of genes that actively promote ovarian development and suppress the testicular programme—such as one called WNT4. XY individuals with extra copies of this gene can develop atypical genitals and gonads, and a rudimentary uterus and Fallopian tubes. In 2011, researchers showed that if another key ovarian gene, RSPO1, is not working normally, it causes XX people to develop an ovotestis—a gonad with areas of both ovarian and testicular development."


"These discoveries have pointed to a complex process of sex determination, in which the identity of the gonad emerges from a contest between two opposing networks of gene activity. Changes in the activity or amounts of molecules (such as WNT4) in the networks can tip the balance towards or away from the sex seemingly spelled out by the chromosomes. “It has been, in a sense, a philosophical change in our way of looking at sex; that it's a balance,” says Eric Vilain, a clinician and the director of the Center for Gender-Based Biology at the University of California, Los Angeles. “It's more of a systems-biology view of the world of sex.”
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www.scientificamerican.com

When a Person Is Neither XX nor XY: A Q&A with Geneticist Eric Vilain

Eric Vilain discusses the biology and politics of mixed-sex individuals, arguing that terms such as "hermaphrodite" and "intersex" are vague and hurtful.
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com

"About one in 4,500 babies show ambiguous genitalia at birth, such as a clitoris that looks like a penis, or vice versa."

genetic.org

Variations - The Association for X and Y Chromosome Variations

About X and Y Variations X and Y Variations, also known medically as Sex Chromosome Aneuploidy (SCA), involve variations in the typical number and type of sex chromosomes. The typical number of chromosomes in each human cell is 46. These include 22 pairs of “autosomes” (which refers to
genetic.org genetic.org

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

How common is intersex? a response to Anne Fausto-Sterling - PubMed

Anne Fausto-Sterling s suggestion that the prevalence of intersex might be as high as 1.7% has attracted wide attention in both the scholarly press and the popular media. Many reviewers are not aware that this figure includes conditions which most clinicians do not recognize as intersex, such as...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"If the term intersex is to retain any meaning, the term should be restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female. Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%."

As I said, vanishingly rare.

If you're confusing preference with DNA/genetics, you need to educate yourself.

I'm not going to argue with you about it, you're wrong and you're going to have to overturn a huge statistical data set in the published literature to even BEGIN to get anywhere.

Humans are XX or XY with a vanishingly small percentage of 'other'.

Period.

What they THINK they are, or what they get surgery to mimic, is another issue entirely and I really don't care what they do.

FKT
 
Raz'r

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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Fah Kiew Tu said:
www.scientificamerican.com

When a Person Is Neither XX nor XY: A Q&A with Geneticist Eric Vilain

Eric Vilain discusses the biology and politics of mixed-sex individuals, arguing that terms such as "hermaphrodite" and "intersex" are vague and hurtful.
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com

"About one in 4,500 babies show ambiguous genitalia at birth, such as a clitoris that looks like a penis, or vice versa."

genetic.org

Variations - The Association for X and Y Chromosome Variations

About X and Y Variations X and Y Variations, also known medically as Sex Chromosome Aneuploidy (SCA), involve variations in the typical number and type of sex chromosomes. The typical number of chromosomes in each human cell is 46. These include 22 pairs of “autosomes” (which refers to
genetic.org genetic.org

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

How common is intersex? a response to Anne Fausto-Sterling - PubMed

Anne Fausto-Sterling s suggestion that the prevalence of intersex might be as high as 1.7% has attracted wide attention in both the scholarly press and the popular media. Many reviewers are not aware that this figure includes conditions which most clinicians do not recognize as intersex, such as...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"If the term intersex is to retain any meaning, the term should be restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female. Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%."

As I said, vanishingly rare.

If you're confusing preference with DNA/genetics, you need to educate yourself.

I'm not going to argue with you about it, you're wrong and you're going to have to overturn a huge statistical data set in the published literature to even BEGIN to get anywhere.

Humans are XX or XY with a vanishingly small percentage of 'other'.

Period.

What they THINK they are, or what they get surgery to mimic, is another issue entirely and I really don't care what they do.

FKT
Click to expand...
Exactly. Sex = Female, Male and a few sorta-kinda-maybes. The sorta-kinda-maybes blow the fundies out of the water however.

As to gender. Don't ask, don't tell.
 
F

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
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Raz'r said:
Exactly. Sex = Female, Male and a few sorta-kinda-maybes. The sorta-kinda-maybes blow the fundies out of the water however.

As to gender. Don't ask, don't tell.
Click to expand...

Fundies - fuck them all. I've no time for those types especially when they try to infiltrate Govt bodies so as to shove their belief system down my throat.

More people should read Jack Vance.

FKT
 
Raz'r

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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Gissie said:
Me? Please let me know where I insist on changing accepted definitions? Maybe it is just your truth that allows you to believe this.
Click to expand...
Good, so there are 2 sexes (plus the sorta-kindas)
And, gender, well, that's up to the person.

Glad we could clear that up.
 
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