INEOS Team GB

[mad]

Find an example of ben not signing stuff for kids and I will as that was the accusation 

I found this to support mine 

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/8578164/All-Black-Julian-Savea-charged-with-assault

I saw it in person, its not likely something that's going to hit the headlines.  He's not important enough to hit the tabloids for that.

Anyway, enough of that side track.

Are they slow or fast or sandbagging..............and what are the odds of a major upset?

 

[winchfodder]

+1

On foils, straight line speed of Rita 2 is not too much off the pace.

But, just too many areas that they are behind the competition at this late stage, Ben is clearly a defeated man at the press conference, I really feel sorry for the team.

It is VMG not reaching around like they spent most of the (few) days sailing from their Portsmouth base. 

 

[Miffy]

I saw it in person, its not likely something that's going to hit the headlines.  He's not important enough to hit the tabloids for that.

I also am puzzled re what’s the relevance re a shitty all black is to the AC campaign or comparisons with Coutts. Like it went from sailing/program/sailor development character/leadership to suddenly a neither here or there “what about ism” about some kiwi I’ve never heard of. 

 

[NZL3481]

All this talk of INEOS being dead in the water seems a little premature to me... Sure they have looked like a beached whale in maneuvres but that could all change with work on their foils and better sail shape control in turns.

Their speed in a straight line when foiling is competitive. Admittedly time is not on their side, and it doesn't look the path to success is simple, but if they don't tortoise through turns they could win races. 

Total speculation, but I get the impression that their whole foil control design is more reliant on fine control of the foil arms than the other teams' approaches and the one-design foil arm responsiveness is not adequate for their intended approach(?) 

The problem is that they have spent all of their foil tickets...

 

[bat]

A lot of talk on staying on foils. Outside of foil design, aero and rig is there a chance this may be a heavy tub?

As for the program, who questions the designers? Was this just another case of design freedom staring at a screen of numbers or were leading International/UK foiling boat designers invited to cross check with balanced opinion? 

 

[jaysper]

is there a chance this may be a heavy tub?

All boats must weigh the same.

 

[mad]

A lot of talk on staying on foils. Outside of foil design, aero and rig is there a chance this may be a heavy tub?

As for the program, who questions the designers? Was this just another case of design freedom staring at a screen of numbers or were leading International/UK foiling boat designers invited to cross check with balanced opinion? 

Who appointed the design team?

 

[bat]

All boats must weigh the same.

That’s one box of many ticked off then

 

[Stingray~]

On foils, straight line speed of Rita 2 is not too much off the pace.

Yep, that’s a very fast boat in the right pressure, the charts prove it. 

 

[terrafirma]

Yes Ineos was officially the fastest boat on Day 3 according to the AC site at something over 43 Knots.? It shows speed is irrelevant if you cant foil through a tack or gybe and don't have VMG. Careers and Resumes are on the line for people like Ben, Grant and Nick Holroyd IMO just to name a few. It smells like an Oracle campaign all the money in the world and still can't design a fast boat. And there's every chance Nick was let go by Team NZ for a reason? The ETNZ celebrations yesterday were akin to winning the AC let's see what happens today?

 

[OldWoodenShip]

Seconds since 00:00 am of the racing day.  Gotta convert it into proper time format later. The website is pretty much work in progress still.

How are you getting the data stream?

 

[fish7yu]

Yep, that’s a very fast boat in the right pressure, the charts prove it. 

Sadly, pure straight line speed is not enough to be competitive.

Rita 2 is slow in maneuvers

Falls off the foils easily

Sticky in the water

Does not point well

........

 

[Stingray~]

How are you getting the data stream?

It’s a bit of a hack... very-very clever but it should not be necessary. PM him nicely.. 

 

[Ex-yachtie]

Given they topped the speeds yesterday they can’t be that draggy 

the lack of lift is far more likely 

Or the sailors are shit?

 

[Horn Rock]

I think it's what Nate said (Jal reiterated) Ineos's foils are not providing enough low speed lift. They've gone for a high speed low drag profile, that's just not working well at manoeuvering speeds. Which is why they can be fast, but shit at tacks etc. They might be able to change the profile to something more balanced. There seems to be a heap of nuance in designing these foils.

 

[mako23]

I think it's what Nate said (Jal reiterated) Ineos's foils are not providing enough low speed lift. They've gone for a high speed low drag profile, that's just not working well at manoeuvering speeds. Which is why they can be fast, but shit at tacks etc. They might be able to change the profile to something more balanced. Their seems to be a heap of nuance in designing these foils.

There flaps should be helping when there  going slow.  Lucky for them there are more flap allocations than foils 

 

[Tornado-Cat]

Sadly, pure straight line speed is not enough to be competitive.

Rita 2 is slow in maneuvers

Falls off the foils easily

Sticky in the water

Does not point well

........

Yes, but in light conditions, next races should be more windy.

 

[Tornado-Cat]

Or the sailors are shit?

Ben a shitty sailor ? Your comment tells more about you than Ben.

 

[mako23]

 
These images are from Maxhuggen the aussie

see how GB foils are a swept back design. A long long time ago I remember that swept back wing design in aircraft have lift isssues at low speed. There very good at high speed, but crap at slow. Which is a problem when landing. One way around this problem  is stonking big flaps. Ineos flaps don’t seem that big

 

[Tornado-Cat]

View attachment 415934
 
These images are from Maxhuggen the aussie

see how GB foils are a swept back design. A long long time ago I remember that swept back wing design in aircraft have lift isssues at low speed. There very good at high speed, but crap at slow. Which is a problem when landing. One way around this problem  is stonking big flaps. Ineos flaps don’t seem that big

Plane wings at low speed are long and thin, like the U2 and here like AM and Emirates, faster airfighter have shorter wings. I don't know how it applies in the water, it might replicate, the design teams did the maths.