INEOS Team GB

mako23

mako23

Super Anarchist
1,837
686
Auckland
atwinda said:
If you consider Ben Ainslie's time with Oracle in 2013 a win, do you also consider his time with ETNZ in 2007 a loss? He was the B-boat helm in both cases. It seems that many here weigh Ben's influence heavily in the 2013 win, however, an argument could be made that another qualified tactician would have provided similar results- To be clear, I'm suggesting that it wasn't so much putting Ben in that role, as it was removing JK from it, which was a bigger influence. Ben being involved as a B-Boat driver likely had as much input during the development of the boats during the build-up as he would have as anyone on the A-Boat. I highly doubt he brought game-altering concepts to the table only after he was promoted to the A-Boat in the give it everything we've got assault to retain the cup. That's just not logical.

I don't understand why there is so much importance placed on Ben's trophy case. He can obviously drive the boat, and I doubt that his age and reflexes are the reason the INEOS AC75 has underperformed to date.

Does anyone here really think Ben is the last word in that organization- that Ben is sitting down and telling the designers how to shape the foils, sails, and hull? Those are all team management decisions. To paraphrase Ken Read- They need to close all the doors around them, hunker down, and assess the viability of every option they have available as a team. They aren't out yet, but relying on Ben's past results won't put them back into it either.

The thing I am most surprised by is that INEOS and AM have used their foil allocation- especially considering that they both had test platforms, and they should have been far enough down the development path when it came to committing the designs for their AC75 foils. And actually, if my memory serves me correctly, I believe several around here claimed that ETNZ specifically would be behind the other teams with early test boats who were able to test foil configurations. The other notable thing to mention in this regard, is that INEOS would have carried the software IP from the 2017 AC foils into this, so they weren't exactly starting from a blank sheet as AM did.
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I think most can agree that Ben is a good sailor if not a great sailor. He’s the logical choice for steering the boat. However Ineos performance in the Christmas racing series was terrible. After such a shocking result it’s only natural that a discussion on how Ben is running the syndicate would happen. As the head of the syndicate the buck stops with him. He has to take responsibility for how things have turned out. He didn’t design the boat but he did hire the designers. He can’t just hire a designer and then wash his hand of all responsibilities.  I’ve also given some stick to Nick Holroyd the designer. He may be culpable than anyone. 
 

Maybe I’m a bit more hard nosed than some, but it’s just not acceptable to have such a large budget and perform so badly.  It’s only natural and also proper that hard questions should  to be asked. 

 
mako23

mako23

Super Anarchist
1,837
686
Auckland
dullers said:
You don't have a Pom hat. If you understood Poms you would realise a sailing race is of no interest over here. We dont plunge into despair over the loss of a little known sailing race.  Apart from soccer interest in every other sport is fairly low key. Sailing is at the bottom of the ladder.  Even losing the Rugby World cup final was not a big event in the mind of most Britons. Winning the AC or not only matters to about 10 people over here. Being a British fan is fun regardless of a win or a loss. That is why the Kiwis or Australians dont have a Balmy Army in cricket. We support through thick and thin and know sport is for fun.  We will not be affected by a win or a loss. If Ben wins he might become a Dame that is all. 
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You have an amazing ability to never be able to see another see another person point of view. It’s not up to you to tell me if I have a Pom hat or not. My British citizenship is that all matters. I have citizenship and nothing you can say can discount this fact. You can’t seem to understand my dislike of Ben does not mean that I’m anti British.  I also know lots of people like rugby in England. I lived in Surrey where rugby was popular. Your view of England seems very northern to me which I suspect you are. 

 
1

167149

Super Anarchist
2,068
509
waiotaiki bay surf club
dullers said:
Are all 5 million scientists and sailors now?  While you maybe a very inventive nation building a fast sailing boat, it is not really the limits of design and Engineering. We dont need your scientists because we have our own who build things that go under water and can fire rockets into space while under water etc.That level of expertise in NZ does not exist. We do have the expertise to build a fast racing boat and it may not be as fast as yours, but I have yet to see your nuclear submarine.
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split your own atom fuckwit !!!

 
B

bat

Member
83
14
thetruth said:
I think the most expensive and culpable is the endless love affair for Grant Simmer. Was passed his used by date 8 years ago. The fact that someone from a different era is current is beyond me......
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8 years ago? Was he not heading the Alinghi cat team that got thumped in an open book design contest vs the tri? No doubt an outstanding sailor with plenty of silverware, like Ben, but in an open design context away from one design and limited fields does he(they) have the open mind to ask the right questions or just believe the designer/s and the numbers handed out? 
A new class with a blank sheet of paper and instead of seeking out sailors and designers familiar with these apparent wind, foil/flap types they go with the past. Even the best (sadly without their best acquisition in Jenson benched), won’t make up for a design team that lacks relevant input and questioning from outside of the loop.

The other 3 teams have Moth world podium sailors in their engine room. INEOs had one and dumped him to the bench...
 

 
dullers

dullers

Super Anarchist
1,472
500
Englandshire
mako23 said:
You have an amazing ability to never be able to see another see another person point of view. It’s not up to you to tell me if I have a Pom hat or not. My British citizenship is that all matters. I have citizenship and nothing you can say can discount this fact. You can’t seem to understand my dislike of Ben does not mean that I’m anti British.  I also know lots of people like rugby in England. I lived in Surrey where rugby was popular. Your view of England seems very northern to me which I suspect you are. 
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I will message you. Lets keep this a boat thread.

 
rh3000

rh3000

Super Anarchist
3,694
1,726
Auckland, New Zealand
dullers said:
You don't have a Pom hat. If you understood Poms you would realise a sailing race is of no interest over here. We dont plunge into despair over the loss of a little known sailing race.  Apart from soccer interest in every other sport is fairly low key. Sailing is at the bottom of the ladder.  Even losing the Rugby World cup final was not a big event in the mind of most Britons. Winning the AC or not only matters to about 10 people over here. Being a British fan is fun regardless of a win or a loss. That is why the Kiwis or Australians dont have a Balmy Army in cricket. We support through thick and thin and know sport is for fun.  We will not be affected by a win or a loss. If Ben wins he might become a Dame that is all. 
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A Brit that refers soccer as soccer, and doesn't think the antipodeans don't have an equivalent to what he thinks is called the Balmy Army?

Not sure who you think you are fooling... But we do know why...

giphy.gif

 
FinnFish

FinnFish

Super Anarchist
3,906
426
dullers said:
Are all 5 million scientists and sailors now?  While you maybe a very inventive nation building a fast sailing boat, it is not really the limits of design and Engineering. We dont need your scientists because we have our own who build things that go under water and can fire rockets into space while under water etc.That level of expertise in NZ does not exist. We do have the expertise to build a fast racing boat and it may not be as fast as yours, but I have yet to see your nuclear submarine.
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And yet you can't control COVID. Try again.

 
Nutta

Nutta

Super Anarchist
2,847
447
Auckland, NZ
dullers said:
Are all 5 million scientists and sailors now?  While you maybe a very inventive nation building a fast sailing boat, it is not really the limits of design and Engineering. We dont need your scientists because we have our own who build things that go under water and can fire rockets into space while under water etc.That level of expertise in NZ does not exist. We do have the expertise to build a fast racing boat and it may not be as fast as yours, but I have yet to see your nuclear submarine.
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Just to be pedantic, you build these things, then they leak embarrassingly and have to go back to the builders for year long refits. But in the past you were quite good at square sail rigs etc... 

 
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