INEOS Team GB

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sailer99

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chesirecat said:
Good examples were Ineos consistently pushed LR to the port top rounding mark and made a tactical decision early even giving up some lead. This decision needs to made some way down the course and as Mozzy said, Giles comments were more quantitive based. As we know this is a common tactic and so more noticeable by lack of equivalent coms from LR . 
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Those kinds of calls are what is making this cup feel more like short course WMRT monohull match racing. The sailors with the most experience and best results with that type of sailing are Bruni and Ben. 

 
chesirecat

chesirecat

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enigmatically2 said:
Not sure I see the comparison. All the boats can already  flatten the flaps on foils and rudder T to reduce drag, or increase them to increase the vertical forces needed. 

Is there something else in there you think is innovative that could cross-over that I am missing?
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Both the Merc foils are different to the other teams, not only in overall design but wing/flap zones,  there's something about them that is just, well different. We probably need to be standing next to them and see them moving.  

 
dullers

dullers

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Mozzy Sails said:
giles scott...

Doing rudder pitch which he takes control of when the flight controller has to grind. 

I think they have rudder pitch in lots of places, helm can do it, it's one of the two flight controller grips as well. 

The inner wheel is now black, and doesn't have the grip shift... i think it's maybe a fine and course wheel for rudder movement? 
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Black seems good for INEOS. They did the black foils and now have moved to painting other things black.  They can only get better...does anyone know if this black is available to all the teams under the rules?

 
pwormwood

pwormwood

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dullers said:
Black seems good for INEOS. They did the black foils and now have moved to painting other things black.  They can only get better...does anyone know if this black is available to all the teams under the rules?
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Well, there is that team in New Zealand called the 'All Blacks', but that's probably not relevant, is it?!

 
36thLatitude

36thLatitude

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dullers said:
Boats dont get faster for being in the shed otherwise no one would be out on the water. I think Prada have a faster boat than INEOS but INEOS is being sailed better. Much to my surprise this race is about sailing the course the fastest by reading the wind. I suspect the KIwis have a fast boat but I have no proof of that and neither do you as the boats are all much improved from the last time they raced together. You have no proof either. The Christmas regatta is so last year.
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Im going on a hunch!

 
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enigmatically2

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Watching day 2 again, I wonder whether anyone has tried using both foils to get out. After all 2 foils doubles the lift, but is far less than doubling the drag (because the hull is much more drag at that point). So sail up to speed x (where x <19kt) with only leeward foil in as now, then drop the other foil which will give a burst of lift and hopefully lift you out before the additional drag slows you down too much.

 
dullers

dullers

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enigmatically2 said:
Watching day 2 again, I wonder whether anyone has tried using both foils to get out. After all 2 foils doubles the lift, but is far less than doubling the drag (because the hull is much more drag at that point). So sail up to speed x (where x <19kt) with only leeward foil in as now, then drop the other foil which will give a burst of lift and hopefully lift you out before the additional drag slows you down too much.
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I would suspect they have tried everything.

 
MaxHugen

MaxHugen

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enigmatically2 said:
Watching day 2 again, I wonder whether anyone has tried using both foils to get out. After all 2 foils doubles the lift, but is far less than doubling the drag (because the hull is much more drag at that point). So sail up to speed x (where x <19kt) with only leeward foil in as now, then drop the other foil which will give a burst of lift and hopefully lift you out before the additional drag slows you down too much.
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Once they have gotten up to speed, around that 19 knot mark, I don't think they have a lot of problem taking off. By then, they are already getting lift to reduce wetted area... a lot of design work probably went into trying to reduce drag as much as possible for take off. Adding drag from the second foil might make the difference of reaching take off speed or not, in light air?

 
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enigmatically2

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MaxHugen said:
Once they have gotten up to speed, around that 19 knot mark, I don't think they have a lot of problem taking off. By then, they are already getting lift to reduce wetted area... a lot of design work probably went into trying to reduce drag as much as possible for take off. Adding drag from the second foil might make the difference of reaching take off speed or not, in light air?
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It might well, but the point being that if it gave enough of a burst of lift at lower speeds they could take off earlier. I said <19kt because I know they take off at 19, but who knows with dropping that 2nd foil whether they could do it at 14 or something.  I'm sure they have considered it, was just a passing thought.

 
dullers

dullers

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enigmatically2 said:
Maybe though we haven't seen any evidence, maybe they may have only modelled it. But sometimes such things are overlooked
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I think when INEOS was struggling in the Christmas regatta they would have tried everything  including foiling without foils. One thing I did find and it has been proved several times is that INEOS appears to be the fastest boat in displacement mode. That must help when trying to get back up but stickiness to water would be included or part of that or unrelated when the hull actually tries to leave the water?  If you have not watched it i recommend the sail gb in Sydney at the beginning of the year. BA steps onto a boat he has not raced much in and then kills the rest.

 
MaxHugen

MaxHugen

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enigmatically2 said:
It might well, but the point being that if it gave enough of a burst of lift at lower speeds they could take off earlier. I said <19kt because I know they take off at 19, but who knows with dropping that 2nd foil whether they could do it at 14 or something.  I'm sure they have considered it, was just a passing thought.
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Sure. I'd be surprised if the teams had not tried everything they could think of to pop up faster. I was a bit surprised to see in one video of a good rear angle of a boat building up speed prior to take off, with the leeward foil already fully canted. I guess it was to reduce leeway?

 
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