INEOS Team GB

[Xlot]

In his interview Benjamin Muyl, Ineos designer, remind us that the two finalist were the first to know the AC75 rules while they were trying to guess what kind of mono they would have to design, losing precious months.

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/regate/coupe-de-l-america/video-les-francais-dans-la-coupe-benjamin-muyl-debriefe-l-aventure-d-ineos-team-uk-7ae84cc4-4054-11eb-8608-7f0bbbb8511e

Pure gold. - thanks, TC. On a personal note, I spoke with Muyl at the 2011 Cascais ACWS (good times, Rennie  ) where he was working on one of the minor teams, forgot which one

Just a coupla points:

- he finally explains what the INEOS problem was for the Xmas Cup. It was the foils, they put cameras on the upper side, which was logical since that’s where cavitation or ventilation could be expected. Only as a last resort they looked at the lower side and discovered that, in addition to the normal positive pressure areas, there was an area that actually went negative! This was centered around a “lip”, didn’t quite understand where

- just as meaningful, he (involuntarily) expands on Toby Heppel’s analysis of INEO’s fumbling (lack of) strategy on design decisions. He says design teams are ripe with brilliant designers brimming with intriguing ideas. The trick is deciding which ones time and budget allow pursuing, and then getting the entire team committed unreservedly to those. He specifically mentions ETNZ as the team where this happens due to the long association and culture, synthetizing in just two words: COMMON VISION

 

[Stingray~]

Any perceived unfairness was certainly not unprecedented. There were more unfair defenders in the Cup's history, e.g. the NYYC comes to mind, for approx. a century.

It seems that a bunch of one-eyed Kiwis on here are pointing to ancient history, for their excuses about why GD should be now bending the rules of fairness towards the Defender. I’m sorry, but that BS is what Ineos are rightfully pointing out. 

 

[Kiwing]

One eyes AM don't see their own bias so of course theirs is always a level playing field.

AC will always favour the defender, that is how it should be and why it is so hard to win.

If you want a level playing field go somewhere else FailGP?

 

[NSP]

And it's also complete BS.  The early design parameters were released to all parties in late 2017/early 2018 and contained enough detail for design teams to begin preliminary work, especially on their simulator.  That's the real advantage that ETNZ and LR had - they entered with much more sophisticated design tools than the other teams.  Presumably Ineos and AM will have similar head starts to new teams in the next cycle which is just how the AC works.

 

[Xlot]

Adding another comment by Muyl, he says that (due to the delayed issuing of the Rule, hmm ...) both AM and INEOS thought that a portion of the racing would be in displacement mode for their first designs - which obviously turned out to be the wrong assumption

 

[jaysper]

One eyes AM don't see their own bias so of course theirs is always a level playing field.

AC will always favour the defender, that is how it should be and why it is so hard to win.

If you want a level playing field go somewhere else FailGP?

Correct. It's not fair but it IS fair enough considering this is the AC.

And Stinger is correct (I know, I'm shocked too) that the NYYC did make it a lot fairer about 40 or 50 years ago.

Was it fair? No, but it was clearly fair enough for Oz II to win the thing.

Ben whinging for a level playing field is just being stupid. Betcha ten bob to a pinch of shit that it wouldn't have been "fair" if INEOS had won it.

That's the price for sitting at the big boy's table and he better get used to it.

 

[Tornado-Cat]

Adding another comment by Muyl, he says that (due to the delayed issuing of the Rule, hmm ...) both AM and INEOS thought that a portion of the racing would be in displacement mode for their first designs - which obviously turned out to be the wrong assumption

Another one, they worked on powerful but draggy foils which required more sail power that... they did not get.

Ah, and he hopes TNZ wins because.... his friend Guillaume works there.

 

[Tornado-Cat]

It seems that a bunch of one-eyed Kiwis on here are pointing to ancient history, for their excuses about why GD should be now bending the rules of fairness towards the Defender. I’m sorry, but that BS is what Ineos are rightfully pointing out. 

I had predicted the relations with Ben would go sour if, and when, they get to be CoR, it seems it already begun. Perhaps Dalts already thinks of another CoR if he wins ?

 

[Paddywackery]

Correct. It's not fair but it IS fair enough considering this is the AC.

And Stinger is correct (I know, I'm shocked too) that the NYYC did make it a lot fairer about 40 or 50 years ago.

Was it fair? No, but it was clearly fair enough for Oz II to win the thing.

Ben whinging for a level playing field is just being stupid. Betcha ten bob to a pinch of shit that it wouldn't have been "fair" if INEOS had won it.

That's the price for sitting at the big boy's table and he better get used to it.

No winner ever complains about the rules. Blame is a companion of failure. 

 

[Kiwing]

The picture of Little old NZ sitting at the big boys table is good?

 

[Ncik]

I think it can also happen with a whole bunch of clever folks who just don't quite gel and figure out what the priorities are to concentrate on.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth."

Having Ben steer this boat is like putting your hooker on the wing. Its not going to be a winning move. The team should've atleast trialled an apparent wind sailor on the wheel. Ben is a great sailor, put him in charge of any slow boat, but he's not a winger.

 

[Paddywackery]

The picture of Little old NZ sitting at the big boys table is good?

Wrong way around, methinks, TNZ are the big boys at the top of the table. Hard earned. 

 

[accnick]

Pure gold. - thanks, TC. On a personal note, I spoke with Muyl at the 2011 Cascais ACWS (good times, Rennie  ) where he was working on one of the minor teams, forgot which one

Probably the French, since he is French.

 

[dullers]

No winner ever complains about the rules. Blame is a companion of failure. 

I wish i failed like Ben.

 

[Paddywackery]

I wish i failed like Ben.

I didn’t mention Ben and he didn’t do the complaining. 

 

[Tornado-Cat]

Probably the French, since he is French.

He was working for ETNZ between 2010 and 2013.

 

[accnick]

Correct. It's not fair but it IS fair enough considering this is the AC.

And Stinger is correct (I know, I'm shocked too) that the NYYC did make it a lot fairer about 40 or 50 years ago.

Was it fair? No, but it was clearly fair enough for Oz II to win the thing.

Ben whinging for a level playing field is just being stupid. Betcha ten bob to a pinch of shit that it wouldn't have been "fair" if INEOS had won it.

That's the price for sitting at the big boy's table and he better get used to it.

How fair is fair enough if you're trying to convince a sponsor to spend $150 million over three years? The guys who drop that kind of money on the AC aren't doing it just for the privilege of showing up.

 

[jaysper]

How fair is fair enough if you're trying to convince a sponsor to spend $150 million over three years? The guys who drop that kind of money on the AC aren't doing it just for the privilege of showing up.

And if it was truly fair, they wouldn't spend $1 challenging for it.

The appeal of the cup is that it is incredibly hard to win.

If the NYYC had only held onto the thing for 3 years before the poms won it off them, none of us would likely ever heard of it and it would probably have already been melted down into earrings.

Let's be clear, the AC is a billionaires cock measuring contest and nobody is going to want to present their ls for measurement if the other guys can't give themselves an edge with little blue pills.

 

[Stingray~]

How fair is fair enough if you're trying to convince a sponsor to spend $150 million over three years? The guys who drop that kind of money on the AC aren't doing it just for the privilege of showing up.

+1

Rattcliffe is gonna make damn sure that GD can’t pull that off again, before signing as CoR. Ben basically laid it down already. 

 

[Stingray~]

Perhaps Dalts already thinks of another CoR if he wins ?

Qingdao is a possibility, there are ‘ties’ between them and the RNZYS, including the planned-for Youth AC boats and series.