INEOS Team GB

winchfodder

Super Anarchist
1,837
354
Carolina, USA
Why do all these fucking $quillionaires want to reengineer the America's Cup? 

They can't bloody help themselves. Seems to me that, Sir James has picked the wrong regatta. More OD, lower costs, more entrants, level playing fields, yada yada yada. He might be a lot better off buying a SailGP team. 

Or, he should learn to play the AC game and get on with winning the fucking thing.


Well, he can re-engineer the fuck out of all he wants......if he wins it.

But even then, as Lazza learnt the hard way, that re-engineering lasts precisely ZERO FUCKING SECONDS after you lose it.
Excellent. The AC does wonders of exposing the arrogance and egotism of billionaires. 

 

winchfodder

Super Anarchist
1,837
354
Carolina, USA
I love it when an Italian puts the "whingeing pom" Sir Ben in his place (see below) about AC history. 

He needs to look at his own performance and the decisions he made before complaining about the rules. All the other teams had the same choices. 

From Lucio Pascarelli:
<Sir Ben Ainslie is making the same mistake many others have made before him. For sure he has not understood the Deed of Gift. The cup belongs to nobody, certainly not to a sporting federation or commercial rights holder. It is only "entrusted" to the winning club provided they follows the rules.
Furthermore, the default match is designed to be asymmetric, with the cup holder free to select the place, and the cup challenger free to select the boat up to the last moment. In other words, the challenger is forced to develop sailing technology to the point that it can overcome the defender on his own turf. It is a technological competition, which has allowed sailing technology to go from the less than 10 knots of the schooners, to the over 40 knots upwind of the AC75. This is by no means intended to be the "fair" and level playing field that Sir Ben Ainslie is asking for. 
Now, if the challenger and defender agree to common rules, they can do anything they want. This is the current case, where ETNZ and COR have agreed to the current AC75 class, the Prada Challenger Series, the race format, the schedule(!), organizing the events and who makes a profit, as well as the establishment of dispute resolution mechanisms such as the Arbitration Panel. And Sir Ben Ainslie should respect the fact that he has been allowed to race only because the Challenger of Record (the Italians) agreed to have a challenger cup - they could have challenged directly without risking their place in the final. 
But all it takes is a disagreement between the Challenger and Defender to bring the dispute back to the NY Supreme Court in Manhattan, which will again rule by the Deed of Gift. Many have tried and failed to "reinterpret the deed of gift" (Conner, Bertarelli, Ellison, etc...) 
Sir Ben Ainslie, more than others, should understand and respect this history, and not whine again on the "fairness" of the cup after loosing."

 

nav

Super Anarchist
14,049
569
He didn't take the twin skin sails seriously. He didn't accept responsibility for errors while racing. He has looked for every excuse possible for the teams lack of success but none of it falls on him it seems. 

Why?

Because he is trying to convince his hoped for future AC sponsors that he should get yet another crack. So you can understand the motivation, but those ^ failures make it doubtful that if left to his own devices the next one will bring better results than the last two tries........

 

Sailbydate

Super Anarchist
11,815
3,401
Kohimarama
I love it when an Italian puts the "whingeing pom" Sir Ben in his place (see below) about AC history. 

He needs to look at his own performance and the decisions he made before complaining about the rules. All the other teams had the same choices. 

From Lucio Pascarelli:
<Sir Ben Ainslie is making the same mistake many others have made before him. For sure he has not understood the Deed of Gift. The cup belongs to nobody, certainly not to a sporting federation or commercial rights holder. It is only "entrusted" to the winning club provided they follows the rules.
Furthermore, the default match is designed to be asymmetric, with the cup holder free to select the place, and the cup challenger free to select the boat up to the last moment. In other words, the challenger is forced to develop sailing technology to the point that it can overcome the defender on his own turf. It is a technological competition, which has allowed sailing technology to go from the less than 10 knots of the schooners, to the over 40 knots upwind of the AC75. This is by no means intended to be the "fair" and level playing field that Sir Ben Ainslie is asking for. 
Now, if the challenger and defender agree to common rules, they can do anything they want. This is the current case, where ETNZ and COR have agreed to the current AC75 class, the Prada Challenger Series, the race format, the schedule(!), organizing the events and who makes a profit, as well as the establishment of dispute resolution mechanisms such as the Arbitration Panel. And Sir Ben Ainslie should respect the fact that he has been allowed to race only because the Challenger of Record (the Italians) agreed to have a challenger cup - they could have challenged directly without risking their place in the final. 
But all it takes is a disagreement between the Challenger and Defender to bring the dispute back to the NY Supreme Court in Manhattan, which will again rule by the Deed of Gift. Many have tried and failed to "reinterpret the deed of gift" (Conner, Bertarelli, Ellison, etc...) 
Sir Ben Ainslie, more than others, should understand and respect this history, and not whine again on the "fairness" of the cup after loosing."
Meraviglioso.

 

Tornado-Cat

Super Anarchist
16,290
1,025
He didn't take the twin skin sails seriously. He didn't accept responsibility for errors while racing. He has looked for every excuse possible for the teams lack of success but none of it falls on him it seems. 

Why?

Because he is trying to convince his hoped for future AC sponsors that he should get yet another crack. So you can understand the motivation, but those ^ failures make it doubtful that if left to his own devices the next one will bring better results than the last two tries........
So you make your own assumptions and then you come up with you own explanation for it ? Amusing.

 
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dullers

Super Anarchist
1,472
500
Englandshire
Seems clear to me that they had all the elements of a competitive campaign, but they just made some bad design choices. That's not money, or whether you are a challenger or a defender. That is a combination of bad luck and lack of brilliance.
Lack of Brilliance?  Maybe lack of experience but they will be better next time.

 

dullers

Super Anarchist
1,472
500
Englandshire
He didn't take the twin skin sails seriously. He didn't accept responsibility for errors while racing. He has looked for every excuse possible for the teams lack of success but none of it falls on him it seems. 

Why?

Because he is trying to convince his hoped for future AC sponsors that he should get yet another crack. So you can understand the motivation, but those ^ failures make it doubtful that if left to his own devices the next one will bring better results than the last two tries........
The fact is INEOS was not fast enough. I dont care what sailors you put on it. INEOS did some things better than others, grinders etc. Ben fronted up for every press conference so people like you could be fed.

 

nav

Super Anarchist
14,049
569
He's spinning it hard now for the reasons stated, if you cant see the obvious...... well why not offer to contribute to his next over-hyped fiasco plucky hi-tech/F1, best of British (Monaco) effort

 

Kiwing

Super Anarchist
3,520
591
Bay of Islands
Lack of Brilliance?  Maybe lack of experience but they will be better next time.
You will only be better if Sir Ben takes a step back into management and leaves the sailing team to younger sailors.  Those sailors should be the customers of the design team with Sir Ben taking a back seat.  Managing the whole thing in a chairman of the board type management role?  IMHO

 

strider470

Super Anarchist
You will only be better if Sir Ben takes a step back into management and leaves the sailing team to younger sailors.  Those sailors should be the customers of the design team with Sir Ben taking a back seat.  Managing the whole thing in a chairman of the board type management role?  IMHO
Problem was he probably had too many responsibilities. But if Ben was at the helm of LR now we would be here saying how a genius he is at the helm even at his age.

 

dullers

Super Anarchist
1,472
500
Englandshire
You will only be better if Sir Ben takes a step back into management and leaves the sailing team to younger sailors.  Those sailors should be the customers of the design team with Sir Ben taking a back seat.  Managing the whole thing in a chairman of the board type management role?  IMHO
Did you see him in sail GP and you think he should step off the boat????

 

JALhazmat

Super Anarchist
4,399
1,674
Southampton
Problem was he probably had too many responsibilities. But if Ben was at the helm of LR now we would be here saying how a genius he is at the helm even at his age.
Precisely.

everyone is a Fucking rockstar with a fast boat. 
the anti Ben chat from those now slating him and the team was very quiet when they were dominating the RR. 
 

 

Zaal

Anarchist
515
699
Italy
Adding another comment by Muyl, he says that (due to the delayed issuing of the Rule, hmm ...) both AM and INEOS thought that a portion of the racing would be in displacement mode for their first designs - which obviously turned out to be the wrong assumption
I'm wondering, so why the flat hulls ? 

 

Zaal

Anarchist
515
699
Italy
All about minimizing drag in the transition phases from floating to foiling
But the flat hull would be super draggy in displacement, no? I remember that the common first impression when all the B1 were launched was that LR and NZ would be better for displacement, and that UK and AM were designed only to fly (and later, as many other thing in this Cup, it turned out it was quite the opposite)

 

winchfodder

Super Anarchist
1,837
354
Carolina, USA
He didn't take the twin skin sails seriously. He didn't accept responsibility for errors while racing. He has looked for every excuse possible for the teams lack of success but none of it falls on him it seems. 

Why?

Because he is trying to convince his hoped for future AC sponsors that he should get yet another crack. So you can understand the motivation, but those ^ failures make it doubtful that if left to his own devices the next one will bring better results than the last two tries........
He is undoubtedly the best helmsman and tactical single handed dinghy sailor of his generation. He is also not bad on any other boat, like SailGP foiling 50's.

He is however not very good at running the show as the $250+ million he managed to spend on two AC campaigns only to produce the slowest boats has proven.

So he needs to step back and find a GD character to sort out getting a boat fast enough on the water so that he has an even chance of winning. 

Magnus has mentioned a chap called Sid a few times as the man who could do that and has done it for him in several Olympic campaigns. So maybe he should get him back onboard. 

 




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