INEOS Team GB

[Forourselves]

So given that Ratcliffe has said they would build a new boat for the Deed of gift match, one would assume they’d build another new boat for AC37. So by virtue of the 1 on 1 deed of gift match, they would have two new AC75’s to each of the AC37 teams one. If I was Dalton, I’d sign up for the DoG match on the condition: that INEOS use one of their existing AC75’s.

 

[chesirecat]

Luna Rossa wasn't the most competitive Challenger in Auckland when you take away that they a Head Start with the AC75 Design Rule. They were not dangerous to ETNZ at all. INEOS & AM were most disadvantaged during AC36!

Luna Rossa will lose some advantages anyways.

Matteo de Nora: It was nice to have them (LR) as opponents, but in my opinion they were the least dangerous team. The Americans were the fastest and the British had the best team. All the regattas took place with the target wind of Luna Rossa. I was amazed at how easily we won when we decided to attack despite the light wind. In any case, all beautiful regattas.

https://farevela.net/2021/03/20/americas-cup-intervista-a-matteo-de-nora-etnz-piu-veloce-e-lidea-di-un-match-a-due-con-ineos-ce/?fbclid=IwAR2GP1oTIbOk7smmpa96EZl_UWP5Q2s53Dc7PRo6BfmOxsiaQSAiX5bxN2w

 

[chesirecat]

So given that Ratcliffe has said they would build a new boat for the Deed of gift match, one would assume they’d build another new boat for AC37. So by virtue of the 1 on 1 deed of gift match, they would have two new AC75’s to each of the AC37 teams one. If I was Dalton, I’d sign up for the DoG match on the condition: that INEOS use one of their existing AC75’s.

He stated that not building two boats would save 30% of the budget and he's quite strong on his bottom lines. 

Another factor would be hull designs would be pretty well understood by now, so systems, foils and especially rigs are the main dev areas.

Lastly not really AC but I suspect hes looking at NZ investment wise. He's got 30 Ineos people working from a temporary Auckland office, been around the South Island and he doesn't do holidays. Maybe a cracking plant near a deep water port which would take in his US shale Ethanol then export output to the Aus/far east. He's already built eight ethanol tankers. That would be a 2 billion investment bottom of the South Island.

 

[jaysper]

Matteo de Nora: It was nice to have them (LR) as opponents, but in my opinion they were the least dangerous team. The Americans were the fastest and the British had the best team. All the regattas took place with the target wind of Luna Rossa. I was amazed at how easily we won when we decided to attack despite the light wind. In any case, all beautiful regattas.

https://farevela.net/2021/03/20/americas-cup-intervista-a-matteo-de-nora-etnz-piu-veloce-e-lidea-di-un-match-a-due-con-ineos-ce/?fbclid=IwAR2GP1oTIbOk7smmpa96EZl_UWP5Q2s53Dc7PRo6BfmOxsiaQSAiX5bxN2w

De Nora seems to lack the ability to shut his mouth.

How utterly ungracious. Fuckhead.

 

[jaysper]

He stated that not building two boats would save 30% of the budget and he's quite strong on his bottom lines. 

I believe one boat will save precisely fuck all.

Teams will always spend as much as they can get hold of.

 

[dg_sailingfan]

So given that Ratcliffe has said they would build a new boat for the Deed of gift match, one would assume they’d build another new boat for AC37. So by virtue of the 1 on 1 deed of gift match, they would have two new AC75’s to each of the AC37 teams one. If I was Dalton, I’d sign up for the DoG match on the condition: that INEOS use one of their existing AC75’s.

A DoG Challenge would have massive Advantages for both, ETNZ and ITUK! Both Teams could built 2 new AC75 Class Boats, one for the 1 - 1 (AC37) and one for the conventional Cup in 2024 (AC38) while LRPP & AM for example could built only one new boat. That is a huge Advantage. If you are the Defender you rig the Advantages into your favour as much as possible if you can.

 

[jaysper]

A DoG Challenge would have massive Advantages for both, ETNZ and ITUK! Both Teams could built 2 new AC75 Class Boats, one for the 1 - 1 (AC37) and one for the conventional Cup in 2024 (AC38) while LRPP & AM for example could built only one new boat. That is a huge Advantage. If you are the Defender you rig the Advantages into your favour as much as possible if you can.

If it is a DoG boat, they can build anything they want within the waterline limits of the DoG.

 

[marlowe]

........ There is definitly some bad blood between the Brits and the Italians.

There's bad blood between the Brits and just about everyone else in Europe at the moment! :mellow:

 

[Chapter Four]

A DoG Challenge would have massive Advantages for both, ETNZ and ITUK! Both Teams could built 2 new AC75 Class Boats, one for the 1 - 1 (AC37) and one for the conventional Cup in 2024 (AC38) while LRPP & AM for example could built only one new boat. That is a huge Advantage. If you are the Defender you rig the Advantages into your favour as much as possible if you can.

Actually, as LR and AM wouldn't be involved in AC37, they can build as many AC75s and foils as they like.

Only when the protocol for AC38 comes out will they be bound by its rules.

 

[strider470]

Matteo de Nora: It was nice to have them (LR) as opponents, but in my opinion they were the least dangerous team. The Americans were the fastest and the British had the best team. All the regattas took place with the target wind of Luna Rossa. I was amazed at how easily we won when we decided to attack despite the light wind. In any case, all beautiful regattas.

https://farevela.net/2021/03/20/americas-cup-intervista-a-matteo-de-nora-etnz-piu-veloce-e-lidea-di-un-match-a-due-con-ineos-ce/?fbclid=IwAR2GP1oTIbOk7smmpa96EZl_UWP5Q2s53Dc7PRo6BfmOxsiaQSAiX5bxN2w

Matteo de Nora is more anti-Italian than some (very few) fanboys here

 

[JALhazmat]

So given that Ratcliffe has said they would build a new boat for the Deed of gift match, one would assume they’d build another new boat for AC37. So by virtue of the 1 on 1 deed of gift match, they would have two new AC75’s to each of the AC37 teams one. If I was Dalton, I’d sign up for the DoG match on the condition: that INEOS use one of their existing AC75’s.

Where in the pay wall article does he explicitly state he has issued a DOG challenge... 

no thought not. 

 

[dogwatch]

Matteo de Nora is more anti-Italian than some (very few) fanboys here

What basis do you have for saying that?

 

[JALhazmat]

If it is a DoG boat, they can build anything they want within the waterline limits of the DoG.

Have INEOS issued a specific DOG challenge? Nope. 

 

[strider470]

What basis do you have for saying that?

What I wrote was actually exaggerated. But I never heard words of pride or encouragement from him towards Italian teams. Normally Italians abroad maintain a strong bond and affection with their Country.

 

[jaysper]

Have INEOS issued a specific DOG challenge? Nope. 

I know, I was trying to point that out to dg in a perhaps too subtle way.

For some reason people keep conflating 1 vs 1 with DoG.

 

[Forourselves]

Where in the pay wall article does he explicitly state he has issued a DOG challenge... 

no thought not. 

Ratcliffe told The Telegraph the deed of gift challenge on the Solent would be “a bridge” to the 2024 full regatta that the paper reported “would almost certainly be held in Auckland”.
Ratcliffe, worth a reported $34b as founder and co-owner of petrochemicals giant Ineos, said he wouldn’t be funding the deed of gift challenge.

“Absolutely not. I want to be clear about that. Because that would be sort of like buying the Cup into the UK and I don't think that's appropriate,”

 

[strider470]

Ratcliffe told The Telegraph the deed of gift challenge on the Solent would be “a bridge” to the 2024 full regatta that the paper reported “would almost certainly be held in Auckland”.
Ratcliffe, worth a reported $34b as founder and co-owner of petrochemicals giant Ineos, said he wouldn’t be funding the deed of gift challenge.

“Absolutely not. I want to be clear about that. Because that would be sort of like buying the Cup into the UK and I don't think that's appropriate,”

So, I'm asking, where is all the advantage for ETNZ?

 

[Forourselves]

So, I'm asking, where is all the advantage for ETNZ?

the score card says it all don't you think?

 

[strider470]

the score card says it all don't you think?

I mean, what can they gain defending in UK if it is not for money, needed to fund the team?

 

[Forourselves]

IMO It can't be a 1 on 1 match without being a Deed of gift match because of the paragraph below:

"Any organized Yacht Club of a foreign country, incorporated, patented, or licensed by the
legislature, admiralty, or other executive department, having for its annual regatta an
ocean water course on the sea, or on an arm of the sea, or one which combines both,
shall always be entitled to the right of sailing a match of this Cup, with a yacht or vessel
propelled by sails only and constructed in the country to which the Challenging Club
belongs, against any one yacht or vessel constructed in the country of the Club holding the
Cup."

IMO this means RNZYS can not decline entries as long as those entries meet the criteria in the DoG and the protocol.

The DoG takes precedence when the Defender and Challenger can not agree, and that match is outlined in the DoG. 

It seems there is no provision in the DoG for a "mutual consent" Deed of gift match, as it would exclude other DoG compliant Challengers, which is against

1) The intent of the Deed:

"This Cup is donated upon the conditions that it shall be preserved as a perpetual
Challenge Cup for friendly competition between foreign countries"

and 

2) The Criteria for acceptance of challengers:

Any organized Yacht Club of a foreign country... shall always be entitled to the right of sailing a match of this Cup...