INEOS Team GB

[IPLore]

Let's get something straight when it comes to Sir Jim Ratcliffe: Looking how AC36 has panned out I have now some serious doubts Ainslie would have made the Start Line in Auckland without the help of him. Land Rovers Money was just a "Drop in the Bucket" compared what Ratcliffe gave him. No way would Ben have been able to built two Boats just with Land Rovers backing.

Conclusion & Bottom Line: Without INEOS Ainslie would not have made the Start Line in Auckland.

The GB team was much better funded by Ratcliffe than it could have been by the previous syndicate of commercial sponsors.  The syndicate manged to fund AC 35 but I think they would have been very short of funds in AC 36.   You are right......Jim's money makes Ineos UK a serious multi cycle contender, but they need to make it to the cup final next time.

Funding is the hardest part of AC because if you don't succeed (and obviously most do not, even if the effort is very good because there is only one winner) it gets harder to sustain the funding. 

The sailors keep saying "its a sport" to rationalize the loss. But AC is unique to all other expensive sports......it is a massive cost undertaking that loses money.   The best 5+ Formula One teams are profitable. Owning a NFL franchise (American Football for the rest of you) or a baseball team is a highly profitable undertaking.

R Coutts and Co........had the dream that the AC could be made spectator friendly, TV friendly , advertising and sponsor friendly   and eventually become a endeavor where revenues would offset a significaant part of the costs and thus become more accessible.

AC 36 went in a different direction and patrons like JR and PB become more important again and teams like NZ may struggle to find funding. 

The AC needs to find ways of controlling cost and not give up on being sponsor and spectator friendly.

 

[IPLore]

There have been quite a few suggestions on this thread and elsewhere that Ben A should take himself off the boat and focus on his management role as principal.

I have just watched again, the first round of SailGP held in Sydney last year in February before Covid exploded.

You can only conclude that Ben should stay on the boat and Ratcliffe should find someone else to manage.

Ben's boat speed on a foiling one design was compelling. He was dominant in practice.  He then went onto win four races out of four in the round robin. They had already qualified for the final so they kept clear of the melle for the start of the fifth race and started a solid 3-5 minutes after everyone else, and methodically sailed through the fleet to finish 4th.  In the match race final, it was won from the start largely by an Australian Error so the match itself was somewhat of an anticlimax. (I hope they make it best of 3 this season) but Ben sailed such a tactical race, Tom was never going to get back.

 It is worth watching, Ben clearly has a great "feel" for a foiling boat.  On a common platform, he was the best foiler in a highly skilled field (which gets even tougher this year)  . I am not suggesting that neither Tom or Nathan can beat Ben . Both are more than capable capable of winning rounds at the Sail GP circuit.....but I am sure that Ben is up there with the high altitude of the best foiling sailors in the world. Putting anyone lesser on Ineos AC helm would be a mistake.

 

[Mozzy Sails]

Ben has no issues with large foiling boats. And I think he would be second to none in terms of wrenching the last drops of speed from any platform given to him. 

I would imagine ben being pretty technical too. But, possibly not 'inventive'. In fact, it's true of most of our sailing talent, that is so focused to one design. The afterguard are certainly some of the best racers we have to offer, and Bleddyn offers very good engineering expertise... but, I'm not sure they (or leigh for that matter) have spent the same time hacking boats in the like Ashby, Blair and Pete have.

Not sure who they will bring in as CEO, but I'd keep Ainsle on the helm, I'd like Percy as a manager, maybe with Adam May as a technical liaison between sailing team and design to better run through concepts. Who knows, but I think it will be an interesting area over the next year. 

The grinders had a clear culture shift and produced something innovative, but also saw the concept over the line from concept to reality. The afterguard seemed to work through several concepts, but were slow narrowing down on the winning systems.

I believe they could make big strides here with a slight culture change whilst keeping the personnel the same. Half the crew are young enough to grow up with Ben as their idol and the older guys will have spent a career in his shadow.  But Ben needs to be aware that whilst this respect is well earnt, and must feel fantastic, it could negatively affect crew willingness to explore 'stupid ideas' or even state the obvious in front of the UK sailing messiah. Ben is a very dominant character and their communication during races is very structured. Again, we don't know, but if that's how chat is in training, then it wouldn't be the best atmosphere for creativity. 

The recent media piece on getting to know 'Guv' was interesting in this regard. I think several of the crew expressed more driven he was, and that rubs off on the rest of the team. But is that out of fear of letting him down, or getting out of step, or looking silly in front of the 'guv'... or do they feel inspired to work towards a common goal, but with the freedom and encouragement to do so in a way that they best can themselves? It's a fine line between the two.

They could also just get their sailors in moths and A-class cats. Get them hands on with projects. Encourage this ethos in their spare time. 

Of course, they could 'buy in' these characters, and people like goody would certainly fit the bill...  but I still think a little shift in mindset is needed. 

Yet, with the class remaining the same the first time, maybe they don't need the blue sky thinking, and we're in to the marginal technicalities and relentless obsession territory where Ben should excel? 

It would make a sweet Netflix sports documentary though! 

 

[IPLore]

It would make a sweet Netflix sports documentary though! 

Indeed.

However the impression I get is that Sir Ben and Lady Ainslie manage their media presence very carefully. The Netflix documentaries like to capture those unguarded moments.

 

[IPLore]

Ben has no issues with large foiling boats. And I think he would be second to none in terms of wrenching the last drops of speed from any platform given to him. 

I would imagine ben being pretty technical too. But, possibly not 'inventive'. In fact, it's true of most of our sailing talent, that is so focused to one design. The afterguard are certainly some of the best racers we have to offer, and Bleddyn offers very good engineering expertise... but, I'm not sure they (or leigh for that matter) have spent the same time hacking boats in the like Ashby, Blair and Pete have.

Not sure who they will bring in as CEO, but I'd keep Ainsle on the helm, I'd like Percy as a manager, maybe with Adam May as a technical liaison between sailing team and design to better run through concepts. Who knows, but I think it will be an interesting area over the next year. 

I cannot speak to Ben's technical or inventive ability.

However I observe that the UK has a culture of inventive application to development classes. You all sail many more development classes than we do in the US and you have many more small boat designers and boat builders than the US.  Humble classes like the National 12 and Merlin Rocket , international moth (the first International moth I ever saw was at an English reservoir) and international 14 have produced some legendary designers which in turn created a legacy and mentors for younger designers and sailors .  Amongst all this ...and I wouldnt start to know the names, I have got to believe that  UK has no shortage of talent to bolster the inventive side. The Brits seem to like sailing small fast boats and seem to like tinkering. Ian Percy by reputation would make a good manager and of course currently manages a technical project.

 

[Mozzy Sails]

Ben: Optimist, Laser, Finn, America's Cup. 

 

[Mozzy Sails]

Ben: Optimist, Laser, Finn 

Giles: Topper, Laser, Finn

Bleddyn: Topper, 29er, Laser, 49er

Leigh: Oppy, Laser, Hobie, Tornado

Luke Parkinson: Oppy, Mirror, 29er, 49er

So... all pretty narrow one designs, even the tornado by the time leigh was sailing them. Leigh and Luke have both done bit of moth sailing, leigh has definitely done a worlds. Bleddyn owned a moth but not sure he ever did events or much competitive sailing in one. Giles and Ben have never sailed a development class in a meaningful way. 

The UK has a great history of development classes, however, from about 1998 the focus is very much SMOD / strict one design. The few that don't drop out of the sport generally end up in RS200s.

The moths have seen massive growth, but it took a little while longer to the top talent to get involved and to be frank the chaps pushing things in the Moth were older(with exception of Paton and Rashley) and based around Stokes Bay and Hayling pre-2014. Really very good sailors... but, not at the career highs as the antipodeans committing similar time to moth around the same time.
Now you've got a generally younger, and IMO better potential coming out of Portland. People in their prime, also committing efforts to serious development class campaigns in the same way Nathan, Goobs, Burling, Tuke, Slingsby and Ashby with the A-Class have done. 

 

[dg_sailingfan]

There have been quite a few suggestions on this thread and elsewhere that Ben A should take himself off the boat and focus on his management role as principal.

I have just watched again, the first round of SailGP held in Sydney last year in February before Covid exploded.

You can only conclude that Ben should stay on the boat and Ratcliffe should find someone else to manage.

Ben's boat speed on a foiling one design was compelling. He was dominant in practice.  He then went onto win four races out of four in the round robin. They had already qualified for the final so they kept clear of the melle for the start of the fifth race and started a solid 3-5 minutes after everyone else, and methodically sailed through the fleet to finish 4th.  In the match race final, it was won from the start largely by an Australian Error so the match itself was somewhat of an anticlimax. (I hope they make it best of 3 this season) but Ben sailed such a tactical race, Tom was never going to get back.

 It is worth watching, Ben clearly has a great "feel" for a foiling boat.  On a common platform, he was the best foiler in a highly skilled field (which gets even tougher this year)  . I am not suggesting that neither Tom or Nathan can beat Ben . Both are more than capable capable of winning rounds at the Sail GP circuit.....but I am sure that Ben is up there with the high altitude of the best foiling sailors in the world. Putting anyone lesser on Ineos AC helm would be a mistake.

Ben was able to sail the Sydney SailGP Event with Goobs (Iain Jensen) and Parko (Luke Parkinson). You might consider those two people when it comes to his success. Will he be able to sail with those two for the upcoming Season 2? Those are two Australians. It looks like the Philosophy of Russell Coutts is that you are only allowed to have one Foreign Sailor joining the Team.

Nick Hutton joined Australias SailGP Team.

Leigh McMillan joined the French SailGP Team.

Tom Johnson who hails from Perth joined the Danish SailGP Team.

The lone Team who apparently will have a 100 % National Crew in SailGP's Season 2 are the Kiwis with Pete Burling, Blair Tuke, Josh Junior, Andy Maloney, Marcus Hansen, Louis Sinclair, Erica Dawson and Liv Mackey.

 

[IPLore]

Ben was able to sail the Sydney SailGP Event with Goobs (Iain Jensen) and Parko (Luke Parkinson). You might consider those two people when it comes to his success. Will he be able to sail with those two for the upcoming Season 2?

Yes he is sailing with Goobs and Parko again in season 2.

They are a strong team.   The All_NZ team is very strong as well.

 

[dg_sailingfan]

Yes he is sailing with Goobs and Parko again in season 2.

They are a strong team.   The All_NZ team is very strong as well.

How do you know that? Are u sure? Do you have any Inside Track on that? The only Rumor I have is that Annabel Vose, who was the Tactician when Land Rover BAR Academy won the Red Bull Youth America's Cup in Bermuda 2017 could be one of the two Women on the British SailGP Team for Season 2. Would make sense!

 

[EYESAILOR]

Yes he is sailing with Goobs and Parko again in season 2.

They are a strong team.   The All_NZ team is very strong as well.

Are you going off this?   https://sailgp.com/teams/great-britain/ 

 

[mako23]

Are you going off this?   https://sailgp.com/teams/great-britain/ 

What a shame, it’s a lost opportunity to develop another foiling helmsman other than Ben. 

 

[mako23]

Ben: Optimist, Laser, Finn 

Giles: Topper, Laser, Finn

Bleddyn: Topper, 29er, Laser, 49er

Leigh: Oppy, Laser, Hobie, Tornado

Luke Parkinson: Oppy, Mirror, 29er, 49er

So... all pretty narrow one designs, even the tornado by the time leigh was sailing them. Leigh and Luke have both done bit of moth sailing, leigh has definitely done a worlds. Bleddyn owned a moth but not sure he ever did events or much competitive sailing in one. Giles and Ben have never sailed a development class in a meaningful way. 

The UK has a great history of development classes, however, from about 1998 the focus is very much SMOD / strict one design. The few that don't drop out of the sport generally end up in RS200s.

The moths have seen massive growth, but it took a little while longer to the top talent to get involved and to be frank the chaps pushing things in the Moth were older(with exception of Paton and Rashley) and based around Stokes Bay and Hayling pre-2014. Really very good sailors... but, not at the career highs as the antipodeans committing similar time to moth around the same time.
Now you've got a generally younger, and IMO better potential coming out of Portland. People in their prime, also committing efforts to serious development class campaigns in the same way Nathan, Goobs, Burling, Tuke, Slingsby and Ashby with the A-Class have done. 

Is there anyone in the uk who can helm an AC75 at the same level of Ben ?

 

[dg_sailingfan]

Are you going off this?   https://sailgp.com/teams/great-britain/ 

You can scratch that! It is outdated. BA is only allowed to have one "Foreign Sailor" on the British SailGP Team. That seems to be the Rule Russell Coutts has implemented.

Australia has Nick Hutton (Grinder/United Kingdom)

Denmark has Tom Johnson (Wing Trimmer/Australia)

France has Leigh McMillan (Wing Trimmer)

United States has Paul Campbell-James (Wing Trimmer/United Kingdom)

Spain has Phil Robertson (Helmsman/New Zealand)

Japan has Nathan Outerridge (CEO, Skipper & Helmsman/Australia)

New Zealand is Sailing with an all Kiwi Team.

I think the Brits can take either Iain Jensen or Luke Parkinson but not both I think.

 

[Forourselves]

Is there anyone in the uk who can helm an AC75 at the same level of Ben ?

Chris Draper has helmed an AC72, so he'd probably be closest, followed by Dylan Fletcher I guess who helmed the GBR F50.

 

[Mozzy Sails]

I've been told same lineup from Sydney. 

I think the nationality rule is sliding a little. If you want sponsors for all teams I think this is the way forward. Also think it's good for the sailors to have more of a transfer market. 

 

[Mozzy Sails]

Is there anyone in the uk who can helm an AC75 at the same level of Ben ?

Well, hard to tell, as no one else has had a go. But there are plenty who I think have the potential to be on the same level. Whether that's better or not you could only know by giving them the stick and trying them out... but:

Giles Scott, Leigh McMillan, Goobs within the team. Then Goody, Dylan Fletcher, Ben Saxton, James Peters. 

But my point is with the those sailor backgrounds, is that they're all good enough, but they're experience as a group is one design. Theres no one on the roster with a really development class outlook. 

A team is about getting the right mix, not just replacing individuals with 'better'. 

Also as I point out, it's not impossible to change that one design outlook in the team without changing personnel.

 

[JonRowe]

Well, hard to tell, as no one else has had a go. But there are plenty who I think have the potential to be on the same level. Whether that's better or not you could only know by giving them the stick and trying them out... but:

Giles Scott, Leigh McMillan, Goobs within the team. Then Goody, Dylan Fletcher, Ben Saxton, James Peters. 

But my point is with the those sailor backgrounds, is that they're all good enough, but they're experience as a group is one design. Theres no one on the roster with a really development class outlook. 

A team is about getting the right mix, not just replacing individuals with 'better'. 

Also as I point out, it's not impossible to change that one design outlook in the team without changing personnel.

Dylan has development class experience, he's a Mothie as well as a 49er sailor, and is the current UK Moth champion.

 

[mako23]

Well, hard to tell, as no one else has had a go. But there are plenty who I think have the potential to be on the same level. Whether that's better or not you could only know by giving them the stick and trying them out... but:

Giles Scott, Leigh McMillan, Goobs within the team. Then Goody, Dylan Fletcher, Ben Saxton, James Peters. 

But my point is with the those sailor backgrounds, is that they're all good enough, but they're experience as a group is one design. Theres no one on the roster with a really development class outlook. 

A team is about getting the right mix, not just replacing individuals with 'better'. 

Also as I point out, it's not impossible to change that one design outlook in the team without changing personnel.

Well, hard to tell, as no one else has had a go. But there are plenty who I think have the potential to be on the same level. Whether that's better or not you could only know by giving them the stick and trying them out... but:

Giles Scott, Leigh McMillan, Goobs within the team. Then Goody, Dylan Fletcher, Ben Saxton, James Peters. 

But my point is with the those sailor backgrounds, is that they're all good enough, but they're experience as a group is one design. Theres no one on the roster with a really development class outlook. 

A team is about getting the right mix, not just replacing individuals with 'better'. 

Also as I point out, it's not impossible to change that one design outlook in the team without changing personnel.

So there’s no real alternative than Ben Ainslie for an UK AC skipper. Technically I feel he’s a good helmsman . However he’s not a team player, which is essential to get the best out of the boat. It’s Bens way or the highway 

 

[Forourselves]

So there’s no real alternative than Ben Ainslie for an UK AC skipper. Technically I feel he’s a good helmsman . However he’s not a team player, which is essential to get the best out of the boat. It’s Bens way or the highway 

I think there is actually a few viable alternatives in Chris Draper, Dylan Fletcher, or even Iain Percy. The problem is, Ben Ainslie is seen as somewhat of a sailing God in the UK, and its almost blasphemy to even think about anyone else holding the wheel. You only need to listen to Shirley Robertson's recent AC commentary in regards to Ben Ainslie. Its like she was in love with the guy! Her voice almost cracked when she finally accepted the INEOS Team UK campaign was over.

Its not that there aren't any alternatives, its that Ben still see's himself as the best sailor in the world. Its his team, and as long as its his team, he calls the shots, and if he wants the helm, he gets the helm. Its that simple.