INEOS Team GB

EYESAILOR

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Is there any evidence that Ben is not a team player?  I’m not saying he is one way or another I think you are speculating 

I agree that management needs strengthening so that Ben can focus on what he does best which is sailing.  Plus  they have come up short in design for 2 cycles in a row. So something needs to change.

But I don’t think the helm has to change.  
 

I think Ben is among the very best large foiling helms in the world and Ineos can win the cup if it gets the right design. 
 

The evidence to support my thesis that he is extraordinary talent is both the results they achieved in round robin with inferior boat in  AC 36    As well as his success in classes such as GP 50

 
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strider470

Super Anarchist
As it seems, for winning the AC you need not only to be the best helmsman in the world, but also the best in driving the development and give the feedback to the design team. Ben is still one of the best helmsman (if not the best) in the world, but I don't know if maybe Burling was better in the other aspect. And being also the boss of the team didn't help him focusing on sailing and development. In Luna Rossa, thanks to Max Sirena, Jimmy and Checco were 100% free to focus on their sailing and developmnet tasks!

 

Mozzy Sails

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So there’s no real alternative than Ben Ainslie for an UK AC skipper. Technically I feel he’s a good helmsman . However he’s not a team player, which is essential to get the best out of the boat. It’s Bens way or the highway 
There's plenty of alternatives, I listed them. 

But why swap Ben out if:

a) his helming is up to standard, and

b) he's the mega draw for sponsors to the team?

Instead
a) bring some more creative thinkers in to the sailing team

b) give existing sailing team members space to go and be inventive (A-Class, Moth, mini, speed record). 

c) make sure people don't feel stupid being wrong in front of Ben

 

EYESAILOR

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There's plenty of alternatives, I listed them. 

But why swap Ben out if:

a) his helming is up to standard, and

b) he's the mega draw for sponsors to the team?

Instead
a) bring some more creative thinkers in to the sailing team

b) give existing sailing team members space to go and be inventive (A-Class, Moth, mini, speed record). 

c) make sure people don't feel stupid being wrong in front of Ben
Have to agree with this. Well put Mozzy.

Why swap out Ben

(a) His helming is proven after his OD dinghy career. He has been foiling large boats since at least 2013 and the record against his peers is very good.  I include the AC36 CSS round robin as an important indication of ability to wring boat speed from a boat, and the sailgp as evidence of his superiority in an equal platform. If Ineos can provide him with a boat as fast as TNZ or others, then the competition will have their hands full.

(b) He is driven and motivated and mental toughness is on a par with Spitbull. This is not a guy who chokes if he is ahead or gives up if behind.  This is important .

(C) Yup , he is a draw.

Instead

Bring in someone who can manage the team, including coaching Ben so that an environment of open contribution is created.

And give benefit of doubt to Ben that he will be prepared to partcipate and encourage contribution.  He wants a faster platform and best ideas. He just has to find the right manager /coach that facilitates that.

I also suspect that Ineos need to get over their love affair with Formula 1. For whatever reason, its not working.

 
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EYESAILOR

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As it seems, for winning the AC you need not only to be the best helmsman in the world, but also the best in driving the development and give the feedback to the design team. Ben is still one of the best helmsman (if not the best) in the world, but I don't know if maybe Burling was better in the other aspect. And being also the boss of the team didn't help him focusing on sailing and development. In Luna Rossa, thanks to Max Sirena, Jimmy and Checco were 100% free to focus on their sailing and developmnet tasks!
Indeed.

But if Ben had too many roles and there is admiration for his helming skills and questions about his team co-ordination skills, it is best to leave him on the helm and find a "Max Sirena" for the team. @Mozzy Sails has suggested Ian Percy. I think that is a good idea. It will be hard for Ben to "let go" because he created the team....but I think with the right trusted person, Ben could lean back and enjoy giving the reins to someone.

 

dg_sailingfan

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I've been told same lineup from Sydney. 

I think the nationality rule is sliding a little. If you want sponsors for all teams I think this is the way forward. Also think it's good for the sailors to have more of a transfer market. 
Any scoop of the two Females on the British Team? My guess is they might be Emily Nagel (who was the Performance Analyst for GBR SailGP Team) and Annabel Vose (who was Tactician on the British Boat for the Red Bull Youth America's Cup in 2017).

 

EYESAILOR

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I'd like to see BA as skipper/tactician and a younger helm. Mozzy has discussed candidates for the latter.
Yes well, we part company there.  I would like to see BA stay as helm and find someone else as skipper/manager.

I think having the manager as tactician (Terry Hutchinson model) is a mistake because its hard to be objective if you are on the boat. I prefer the Russell Coutts/Max Sirena/Grant dalton model.

Ben is a once in a generation helm.

 

EYESAILOR

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Yes. But that was the previous generation. 
Lets agree to disagree.   I think he still has it for now.  I think he gets one or maybe 2 more shots.   Post Ben, Im not sure where the next world class talent is going to be coming out of the UK. I suspect it will be a surprise......maybe some foiling kiteboarder from Hayling Island :)

 

dg_sailingfan

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@EYESAILOR

The notion that Chris Draper would helm an AC75 Boat by @Forourselvesis just pure BOGUS. Draper is even older than Ainslie.

I've rewatched some SailGP Events from 2019 and it was quite obvious that Dylan Fletcher lacks Experience. I don't see any other than Ben helming INEOS TEAM UK Boat for AC37. Maybe Goodison can helm it if he chooses to sail for the Brits instead of the Americans.

I do agree though replacing Grant Simmer with Iain Percy would be a good Deal. Ben & Iain are good mates and Ben needs someone he can trust assuming Simmer gets dropped.

 

EYESAILOR

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@EYESAILOR

The notion that Chris Draper would helm an AC75 Boat by @Forourselvesis just pure BOGUS. Draper is even older than Ainslie. Agreed/

I've rewatched some SailGP Events from 2019 and it was quite obvious that Dylan Fletcher lacks Experience. Dylan is very talented but he is not as talented even with the age advantage as Ben. Ben was much faster in the GP50 than Dylan.

I don't see any other than Ben helming INEOS TEAM UK Boat for AC37. Maybe Goodison can helm it if he chooses to sail for the Brits instead of the Americans.When ever Ben and Goody have raced in the same classes, Ben has achieved better results.

However I think Goody is one of the best sailors on the AC circuit.  I understand that he is very methodical and analytical. Ben and Peter B are also analytical but they both also have that indefinable "something" or instinct that wins a race. Watching PB's olympic races and BA's olympic races, it is uncanny how they oull a rabbit out of the hat.

I do agree though replacing Grant Simmer with Iain Percy would be a good Deal. Ben & Iain are good mates and Ben needs someone he can trust assuming Simmer gets dropped. @Mozzy Sails idea not mine....but I agree with it.  I doubt that Jim R could spare the time but I suspect he could have a good impact on team management dynamics.

 

dg_sailingfan

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@EYESAILOR

To be perfectly honest with you mate it wasn't the Sailors why ITUK lost AC36. The Brits & the Kiwis had the two best Sailing Teams but the New Zealanders did have a GAZILLON better Design Team and that's why they won in the end.

Ben/Giles absolutely OWNED Bruni/Spithill in the Round Robins with their tactical genius because knew they had a boat they could compete with.

Somebody needs to pull some strings together for AC37 when it comes to their Design Team. IMO they had too many voices voicing too many different opinions.

Nick Holroyd got his shot, first with the Japanese in 2017 and now with the Brits and he botched up both. They created a Dog and had to pull help from the Merc Guys together to help them out after the Christmas Event.

Contrary to what many say INEOS doesn't need to dump Merc., in fact Merc & INEOS need to work even closer together for AC37. Ratcliffe or whomever the new CEO will be has to find a similar Design Coordinator like Dan Bernasconi is for the Kiwis. Once that happes they can win this thing.

My Dream Afterguard for ITUK for AC37 would be: Ben/Giles/Goodi. Let these 3 guys work together and you have your Dream Team.

I watched some older AC34 Footage and it was obvious once Ben found his Spot as Tactician for OTUSA the combination of Spithill/Ainslie/Slingsby was totally deadly.

But from the moment the Americans split up that "Dream Combo" I knew they would lose AC35. Not only didn't OTUSA defend it, they didn't even win a single ACWS Event.

Portsmouth 2015: Land Rover BAR

Gothenburg 2015: Emirates Team New Zealand

Bermuda 2015: Artemis Racing

Oman 2016: Land Rover BAR

New York 2016: Emirates Team New Zealand

Chicago 2016: Artemis Racing

Portsmouth 2016: Land Rover BAR

Toulon 2016: Artemis Racing

Fukuoka 2016: Land Rover BAR

Overall Winner ACWS 2015/16: Land Rover BAR

I mean, that is saying something, doesn't it mate?

 
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coercivity

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BA is good but as with all the AC helms he is getting old for the job so in 3 or 4 years he will not be better but worse.

New talent can be developed in a 4 year cycle with BA's help but will he?? 

The fact that there is no real contender within the team is a bad sign.

 

mako23

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But why swap Ben out if:

a) his helming is up to standard, and

b) he's the mega draw for sponsors to the team?
Why swap Ben out

He keeps losing and he’s NOT at the standard to win the cup

LR killed him in the starts during the Prada Cup final.....in that final he chocked. He’s simply not up to the job. 

Also being a mega draw is irrelevant, Ineos is all the sponsorship needed

 

dg_sailingfan

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Why swap Ben out

He keeps losing and he’s NOT at the standard to win the cup

LR killed him in the starts during the Prada Cup final.....in that final he chocked. He’s simply not up to the job. 

Also being a mega draw is irrelevant, Ineos is all the sponsorship needed
Ben did not choke during the Prada Cup Final. He had a significantly slower Boat in lighter airs so he had to try something in the Starts.

If you want to blame somebody at INEOS blame Grant Simmer or Nick Holroyd and his Design Team who created that "Dog" they had to sail especially in the lower wind range. Ben/Giles owned LR in the Round Robins with their tactical display.

 

EYESAILOR

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@EYESAILOR

To be perfectly honest with you mate it wasn't the Sailors why ITUK lost AC36. The Brits & the Kiwis had the two best Sailing Teams but the New Zealanders did have a GAZILLON better Design Team and that's why they won in the end. Yes Agreed

Ben/Giles absolutely OWNED Bruni/Spithill in the Round Robins with their tactical genius because knew they had a boat they could compete with.  Agreed. Brilliant tactics and sailing to win every race with a boat that at best was level.

Somebody needs to pull some strings together for AC37 when it comes to their Design Team. IMO they had too many voices voicing too many different opinions. We dont really know why the design was behind others. But it is something they need to work on

Nick Holroyd got his shot, first with the Japanese in 2017 and now with the Brits and he botched up both. They created a Dog and had to pull help from the Merc Guys together to help them out after the Christmas Event.

Contrary to what many say INEOS doesn't need to dump Merc., in fact Merc & INEOS need to work even closer together for AC37. Ratcliffe or whomever the new CEO will be has to find a similar Design Coordinator like Dan Bernasconi is for the Kiwis. Once that happes they can win this thing.

My Dream Afterguard for ITUK for AC37 would be: Ben/Giles/Goodi. Let these 3 guys work together and you have your Dream Team.  Goodi will contribute to any team he is part of.  I think there would be a certain amount of overlap with Giles and too many cooks/tacticians can spoil the broth.  Ben and Giles clearly "click" as helm/tactician combo.  Goodi could possibly be a contender for Flight controller replacing Leigh and/or Parko + providing extra pair of eyes for Giles.  I think Giles would listen to Goodi better than TH did. If that was going to be a possibility, we might have seen Goodi try out during the Sail GP. He is noticeably absent. The problem with including Goodi to replace some of the younger team members is that he raises the average age of the team even more. Goodi is 43/44 years (same age as Ben).  Talented guy but I think some would hesitate before adding a 44 year old flight controller alongside the 44 year old helm (that some mistakenly seem to think is past his prime)

I watched some older AC34 Footage and it was obvious once Ben found his Spot as Tactician for OTUSA the combination of Spithill/Ainslie/Slingsby was totally deadly. Very very true.  I thought the chat between Sling and Ben was great. Basicaly they told Spit where to put the boat and at one stage Ben was telling spit which mode to drive "bow down a bit here Jimmy". 

But from the moment the Americans split up that "Dream Combo" I knew they would lose AC35. Not only didn't OTUSA defend it, they didn't even win a single ACWS Event.

Portsmouth 2015: Land Rover BAR

Gothenburg 2015: Emirates Team New Zealand

Bermuda 2015: Artemis Racing

Oman 2016: Land Rover BAR

New York 2016: Emirates Team New Zealand

Chicago 2016: Artemis Racing

Portsmouth 2016: Land Rover BAR

Toulon 2016: Artemis Racing

Fukuoka 2016: Land Rover BAR

Overall Winner ACWS 2015/16: Land Rover BAR

I mean, that is saying something, doesn't it mate?

 
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mako23

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Ben did not choke during the Prada Cup Final. He had a significantly slower Boat in lighter airs so he had to try something in the Starts.

If you want to blame somebody at INEOS blame Grant Simmer or Nick Holroyd and his Design Team who created that "Dog" they had to sail especially in the lower wind range. Ben/Giles owned LR in the Round Robins with their tactical display.
Being a slower boat doesn’t matter in the start, and in the starts Ben was made to look very poor compared to Spithill. Also their boat wasn’t a dog and did win a race when Ben did win the start. 
I accept LR was a better boat, but it’s bit of a stretch to call the boat a dog.  Remember it did win races against LR and AM.  A dog wins very few races and that’s not the case win the Ineos boat. However if you raced Ineos against ETNZ they would of been slaughtered 7 zip

If Ben was racing ETNZ or LR in identical AC75 boats he would lose, due to his poor record in the starting box 

 
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