INEOS Team GB

[Sailbydate]

There’s a legitimate argument being made by Grant S and others, that if you do ‘win the bloody Cup’ you don’t also get nasty about it. Creating a new Class in secret is unprecedented, the (apparent) money and design-lead motivations are for sure questionable and likely won’t go down well in AC History. 

And bitching about it will achieve exactly what, Stinger? It's not like ETNZ will, "see the error of their questionable ways" and invite a rethink on the AC75 Rule is it?

Just get on with it, for fucks sake. I'm done.

 

[Stingray~]

And bitching about it will achieve exactly what, Stinger? It's not like ETNZ will, "see the error of their questionable ways" and invite a rethink on the AC75 Rule is it?

Just get on with it, for fucks sake. I'm done.

Okay  

 

[Lickindip]

There’s a legitimate argument being made by Grant S and others, that if you do ‘win the bloody Cup’ you don’t also get nasty about it. Creating a new Class in secret is unprecedented, the (apparent) money and design-lead motivations are for sure questionable and likely won’t go down well in AC History. Where is the promised transparency and ‘honor’? 

secret? unprecedented? surely you mean except for all the other times.

Alinghi proposed a larger new IACC design with a dodgy challenger before they took to long and ended up in a DOG match

oracle had access to the design criteria for the AC72 before the challengers, LR chose to buy a design of ETNZ, Artemis was so far behind it wasn't funny

oracle again with help from a failed ausy challenge changed the design to an AC62 and THEN mid cycle changed to the AC50 without all challengers accepting leading to LR pulling out

 

[uflux]

Stingray does know this is the America’s Cup right?? The Laser forum is down the hall on the right... :mellow:

 

[Stingray~]

secret? unprecedented? surely you mean except for all the other times.

Alinghi proposed a larger new IACC design with a dodgy challenger before they took to long and ended up in a DOG match

oracle had access to the design criteria for the AC72 before the challengers, LR chose to buy a design of ETNZ, Artemis was so far behind it wasn't funny

oracle again with help from a failed ausy challenge changed the design to an AC62 and THEN mid cycle changed to the AC50 without all challengers accepting leading to LR pulling out

You are dead wrong on all of that history. 

 

[Nauti Buoy]

You are dead wrong on all of that history. 

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Oracle hire M&M to design the 72 rule? So they wouldn’t have gotten specs until it was done? Don’t recall specifics for 62 but thought it was similar. 

 

[Flippin Out]

Choosing a new Class Rule is good but doing it all in secret is not. Listen to Grant S and to the SR Designers interviews before that. 

Can you point me in the right direction to find where Oracle involved all the teams in changing to the new AC72 & AC50 Multi Hull Classes. I've been looking for ages and can't seem to find it. But I'm sure it's there someone otherwise you wouldn't have such a beef with what ETNZ have done. 

No hurry at all if you've got other stuff on. Just whenever you're ready, shoot it through. I'll be here waiting.

 

[Mudz]

“I don’t think it was right that Team New Zealand and Luna Rossa were writing the rule in isolation really,” Simmer told the Shirley Robertson podcast.

“They had a head start on everyone and I think you can see that when you compare the boats.”

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/122708053/americas-cup-british-challenger-promises-radical-different-new-boat-for-auckland-2021

Interesting comments from Simmer given what he and Oracle had done in the previous 2 editions of the Cup. Short memory perhaps?

 

[NZL3481]

There’s a legitimate argument being made by Grant S and others, that if you do ‘win the bloody Cup’ you don’t also get nasty about it. Creating a new Class in secret is unprecedented, the (apparent) money and design-lead motivations are for sure questionable and likely won’t go down well in AC History. Where is the promised transparency and ‘honor’? 

There may be a legitimate argument as Grant Simmer points out, but that argument is with Luna Rossa as as Challenger of Record about consulting with the other challengers, not ETNZ.

The Americas's Cup has almost always been about the challenger or challenger of record choosing the type of boat and the defender choosing the venue, date and time of the match usually well after the type of boat has been decided. Does anyone remember the stunt of Ras-Al-Khaimah that Alinghi tried to pull?

Grant Simmer of all people was up to his neck in the shenanigans of the defender of the previous five America's Cups, so for him to be bitching about this is just rolled gold hypocrisy...

 

[NZL3481]

Interesting comments from Simmer given what he and Oracle had done in the previous 2 editions of the Cup. Short memory perhaps?

and the 3 cups previous to that with Alinghi...

 

[Nauti Buoy]

Interesting comments from Simmer given what he and Oracle had done in the previous 2 editions of the Cup. Short memory perhaps?

Oracle didn’t write the 72 rule? Hired an outside firm. Short memory perhaps?

 

[KiwiJoker]

There may be a legitimate argument as Grant Simmer points out, but that argument is with Luna Rossa as as Challenger of Record about consulting with the other challengers, not ETNZ.

The Americas's Cup has almost always been about the challenger or challenger of record choosing the type of boat and the defender choosing the venue, date and time of the match usually well after the type of boat has been decided. Does anyone remember the stunt of Ras-Al-Khaimah that Alinghi tried to pull?

Grant Simmer of all people was up to his neck in the shenanigans of the defender of the previous five America's Cups, so for him to be bitching about this is just rolled gold hypocrisy...

And there you have it!

"The Americas's Cup has almost always been about the challenger or challenger of record choosing the type of boat and the defender choosing the venue, date and time of the match"

 

[Rennmaus]

It is nuts, the way GD schemed the Rule Writing, in excluding the wider design community from not only contributory comments but even from informative progression updates too. Grant says that over time that advantage has dimished but, damn, the advantage taken is unprecedented. Not to mention how he then took the design also as a multimillion $ money making opportunity from ACE..
 

The DR should have been done in a far better way, exactly as Grant pointed out. 

He should complain to the CoR as LR is his representative. ETNZ is not the right contact. 

 

[trt131]

Are you saying that the concept and design came from the Italians?  I dont think so.

 

[rh3000]

That Simmer interview is total #fakenews, just like COVID.

You can tell because:

• He didn't state ETNZ's win in Bermuda being down to a fluke weather pattern, but something wierd like better foils, flight, rudder, and overall concept.
  
• He said SBTJ was basically a linked team of OTUSAs
  
• He said OTUSA had no idea it was possible to foil in the AC72s until they saw the lake video
  

See! All total fake news BS.

MAKE GRANT SIMMER GREAT AGAIN!

 

[hoom]

until they saw the lake video

:blink:

That came out much later than clear proof that TNZ were foiling their AC72...

Orifice had access to the video earlier via NSA/other TLA spy agency?!

 

[barfy]

It is nuts, the way GD schemed the Rule Writing, in excluding the wider design community from not only contributory comments but even from informative progression updates too. Grant says that over time that advantage has dimished but, damn, the advantage taken is unprecedented. Not to mention how he then took the design also as a multimillion $ money making opportunity from ACE..
 

The DR should have been done in a far better way, exactly as Grant pointed out. 

Hey nuts bar answer the question

How many teams did Grant Simmer have in to help write the rule with Oracle? 

?????? Spin spin spin ??????

 

[ITA602]

That Simmer interview is total #fakenews, just like COVID.

Maybe GS interview... for the rest, tell that to the people who has seen Italian army trucks full of coffins from the Bergamo hospital.

Fortunately, this forum is about sailing...

Over and out.

 

[atwinda]

You are dead wrong on all of that history. 

Not so fast... Alinghi DID propose a larger class, the AC90. They, via proxy, even built a boat. It was pretty widely known at the time within the sailing circles that the JV66 Numbers was an R&D effort for the AC90, even though they denied it. https://www.sailingworld.com/sailboats/numbers-judel-vrolijk-66/ 

 

[rh3000]

Maybe GS interview... for the rest, tell that to the people who has seen Italian army trucks full of coffins from the Bergamo hospital.

Fortunately, this forum is about sailing...

Over and out.

I think you've missed my sarcasm