Installing a composting toilet.

[loungesailor]

Do you ration/issue 4 squares to guests?

Had a friend who set out from Victoria BC to sail around the world nonstop. He had to stop in San Francisco for repairs outbound but then didn’t stop there after he circled but instead sailed straight to Victoria.  The record keepers told him he technically hadn’t sailed around the world nonstop because of the stop in SF.

Anyway I digress.
He only took 10 rolls of toilet paper for the whole 279 days.
Claimed it wasn’t a problem since he had the worlds largest bidet, the ocean. His sailboat of choice for the attempt was a Contessa 32 aka “a submarine with sails” 

I figure that since his butt was underwater most of the way round he was probably correct.

 

[DDW]

That's an excessive amount of toilet paper, we are led to believe. Let's say two events a day or 558 attempts. Single ply is 1000 squares a roll. You should only need a little over 2 rolls for that trip. 

A bidet would improve the chances, but a bidet on a composting toilet seems problematic. 

I wonder if the users of 4 squares on the boat also do that at home. If not, that is either depravation on the boat or wasteful excess at home. 

 

[Ajax]

When we arrived in Annapolis MD in May of 2018 The nice man who was taking our money for the mooring mentioned pump out stations. I told him we had a composter and he said to keep it quiet and not tell the harbourmaster since they were illegal there. Is this true? I have heard of some push back in places but downright illegal is a new one. 

What @kent_island_sailor said. Totally legal.  Either this guy was confusing it with a Lectra-San or he was lying to you because the harbormaster wants the pump out fees. If everyone had a composting head, what would they do for money?

 

[loungesailor]

That's an excessive amount of toilet paper

He was probably worried that being in a submarine for 279 days everything would get wet so brought extra.   
He told me he would hang his ass over the side which was easy to do with the 4 inches of freeboard those things have. Five knots of boat speed did the rest, claimed it worked a treat and that his ass was never so shiny.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I shared a head with a chief engineer for a time.  He'd stop new crew, hold up six squares of toilet paper and say "this is all you need, never ever any more".  I never tested it out, but a couple of times when I knew he was in he's cabin I'd go in the head, wait a suitable amount of time, then spin the roll backwards two or three times just letting it freewheel.  Pause again, then flush.  Only one of us thought it was funny. 

 

[Happy]

Absolutely 4 squares is adequate.....

Not if it's James Bond TP. You have to fold it 007 times or you get a Goldfinger.  (Groan, sorry, etc.....)

I mostly put the paper in a small swing-lid rubbish bin, fits neatly next to the toilet. Empty it into the solids bag once a week when removing. It takes up about the same space as a week's breakfast/lunch/dinner plus wood shavings.

 

[Cruisin Loser]

What @kent_island_sailor said. Totally legal.  Either this guy was confusing it with a Lectra-San or he was lying to you because the harbormaster wants the pump out fees. If everyone had a composting head, what would they do for money?

Is the ElectroScan legal?

 

[thinwater]

What @kent_island_sailor said. Totally legal.  Either this guy was confusing it with a Lectra-San or he was lying to you because the harbormaster wants the pump out fees. If everyone had a composting head, what would they do for money?

Wrong. It is illegal in Annapolis. And not because the harbor master wants to pump more poo (I've spoken with her several times).

The problem is a handfull of sailors that dump their bag in the wastebaskets at the dinghy dock, creating a mess. If they had taken them to the dumpster there wouldn't have been an issue, but now it's a local law. It is in the ordinance, not just policy.

 

[Steve]

Had a friend who set out from Victoria BC to sail around the world nonstop. He had to stop in San Francisco for repairs outbound but then didn’t stop there after he circled but instead sailed straight to Victoria.  The record keepers told him he technically hadn’t sailed around the world nonstop because of the stop in SF.

Anyway I digress.
He only took 10 rolls of toilet paper for the whole 279 days.
Claimed it wasn’t a problem since he had the worlds largest bidet, the ocean. His sailboat of choice for the attempt was a Contessa 32 aka “a submarine with sails” 

I figure that since his butt was underwater most of the way round he was probably correct.

Your friend didn't happen to be Peter Freeman by chance? Sounds a lot like his voyage.

 

[loungesailor]

Your friend didn't happen to be Peter Freeman by chance? Sounds a lot like his voyage.

Guy Druce, sometime back in the late nineties as I recall. Memory’s a bit dim.

 

[Kris Cringle]

Wrong. It is illegal in Annapolis. And not because the harbor master wants to pump more poo (I've spoken with her several times).

The problem is a handfull of sailors that dump their bag in the wastebaskets at the dinghy dock, creating a mess. If they had taken them to the dumpster there wouldn't have been an issue, but now it's a local law. It is in the ordinance, not just policy.

From what I read the local law is for liveaboards staying more than 1 week in Annapolis. Totally understandable with the state of sailboats as dwellings. Sailors are welcome to stay a week. 

One thing I remember well from going through the ICW harbors down south years ago is that I WISHED there was a 1 week limit for all boats. That way, transiting sailors would have had their right to anchor, restored. 

 

[Ajax]

Is the ElectroScan legal?

In much of the Chesapeake, yes. There are a few "NDZ's" that are absolutely zero discharge of any kind, such as Herring Bay. They're marked on the charts.

 

[Ajax]

Wrong. It is illegal in Annapolis. And not because the harbor master wants to pump more poo (I've spoken with her several times).

The problem is a handfull of sailors that dump their bag in the wastebaskets at the dinghy dock, creating a mess. If they had taken them to the dumpster there wouldn't have been an issue, but now it's a local law. It is in the ordinance, not just policy.

Please post the ordinance from the Annapolis City gov't. 

A search comes up empty except for two threads on CF and Sailnet, neither of which cite the relevant ordinance.  All they say is that some officious busybody asked them what type of head they had, and then told them that they could only visit for 3 days.  To me, this sounds like "legislation by agency" (Annapolis Harbormaster) which does not carry the weight of law and is flatly illegal.

My advice to visitors: If you're explicitly asked by the Annapolis harbormaster what kind of toilet your vessel is equipped with, simply reply "A Marine Sanitation Device, Type III."  Types of MSDs : BoatUS Foundation  You're not lying and it's none of their God damned business. Please deposit your bagged solids in a DUMPSTER, not one of the small general trash receptacles. You'll find a small dumpster near the brick utility structures in the parking lot down near the little "open space" towards the water with all the park benches and such. See the red circle in the attached photo.

I live in the area and in 12 years, I have *never* been questioned by the harbormaster as to my type of MSD.

 

[Cruisin Loser]

In much of the Chesapeake, yes. There are a few "NDZ's" that are absolutely zero discharge of any kind, such as Herring Bay. They're marked on the charts.

I got rid of the LectraSan on my previous boat because all waters in MA and RI are NDZ's. The LectraSan got you nothing. 

 

[Ajax]

I got rid of the LectraSan on my previous boat because all waters in MA and RI are NDZ's. The LectraSan got you nothing. 

The bay is a little weird. It's NDZ for black water because there is nowhere that you are 3nm away from anything but gray water is allowed...except in the NNDZWRMITT (No-No-Discharge Zone, we really mean it this time!)

Periodically the Maryland General Assembly takes up potential legislation requiring the tanking and pumping out of gray water but it hasn't come to pass yet. I dunno what Virginia is doing about their portion of the bay. Let's be real though- the Baltimore sewage treatment plant overflows more fecal waste into the Patapsco River and hence the Chesapeake in a single heavy rain than all the recreational boaters would do in an entire year.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Baltimore sewage treatment plant overflows more fecal waste into the Patapsco River and hence the Chesapeake in a single heavy rain than all the recreational boaters would do in an entire year.

I bet people would be quite surprised, as I was, to learn about municipal 'unplanned releases' in every city, everywhere. How frequently they occur and how much raw waste outflows from them. And that's not including the general leakage and infrastructure failures of these cities: things like broken sewage lines or old septic tanks and fields...

it's people

 

[thinwater]

Please post the ordinance from the Annapolis City gov't....

It will only come up if you are anchored or on a mooring for more than 2 days. A pump-out is required and there are no exceptions. Just passing through they will never ask (I am local too). As a practical matter, only if you are on a mooring run by the city.


15.06.090 - Vessel toilets.



 




 




A.

A person may not operate the toilet fixtures of a vessel within City waters at any time so as to cause or permit to pass or be discharged into City waters any sewage or other waste matter or contaminate of any kind which does not meet State, County, and Federal requirements for water quality discharged by such devices. A person may not operate incinerating toilets in a vessel within City waters at any time.

B.

A person who anchors a vessel in City waters for more than two days shall pump out the vessel's holding tank at regular intervals, as determined by the Harbormaster. The person shall present evidence of such pumping to the Harbormaster.

 

[Cruisin Loser]

The bay is a little weird. It's NDZ for black water because there is nowhere that you are 3nm away from anything but gray water is allowed...except in the NNDZWRMITT (No-No-Discharge Zone, we really mean it this time!)

Periodically the Maryland General Assembly takes up potential legislation requiring the tanking and pumping out of gray water but it hasn't come to pass yet. I dunno what Virginia is doing about their portion of the bay. Let's be real though- the Baltimore sewage treatment plant overflows more fecal waste into the Patapsco River and hence the Chesapeake in a single heavy rain than all the recreational boaters would do in an entire year.

There was quite a long period where Narraganset Bay was all NDZ, but Providence was dumping untreated sewage almost continuously. 

 

[accnick]

There was quite a long period where Narraganset Bay was all NDZ, but Providence was dumping untreated sewage almost continuously. 

This is the irony in a lot of US bays that have major cities, which means almost all of them.

The worst situation we got into was when we left the boat in a marina in Gibraltar for about six weeks while we went to England to do the AC Jubilee Regatta and for work prior to a Volvo/Whitbread race.

When we got back, the entire marina was floating in raw sewage from a major sewer line break which took more than a week to fix. The smell was so bad you could barely stay on the boat, and running the engine was out of the question.

You know things are bad when the water coming into the head from the intake is worse than what you would be pumping out through the outlet seacock.

The pollution from boats was a figurative drop in the bucket.

 

[Kris Cringle]

The bay is a little weird. It's NDZ for black water because there is nowhere that you are 3nm away from anything but gray water is allowed...except in the NNDZWRMITT (No-No-Discharge Zone, we really mean it this time!)

Periodically the Maryland General Assembly takes up potential legislation requiring the tanking and pumping out of gray water but it hasn't come to pass yet. I dunno what Virginia is doing about their portion of the bay. Let's be real though- the Baltimore sewage treatment plant overflows more fecal waste into the Patapsco River and hence the Chesapeake in a single heavy rain than all the recreational boaters would do in an entire year.

It's true that big municipalities have sewage treatment overflow problems. Burlington Vermont was a classic on a pristine lake(fixed now I think). Boaters have no fingers pointed at them in the lakes, they're not involved, by strict laws. 

But we have the same problems here in our little harbors where no municipal sewage treatment problems come into play. Certain weather conditions(?) and bang, a high fecal choliform count closes the beaches.

We have birds, we have too many landscapers adding stuff to lawns, and we have boats. Hundreds of rec boats in our harbor all with heads and holding tanks. Fishing boats, with direct discharge heads (or no head). 

The boater angle is always, "It's not us! We just 'go' in the harbor, a little,...The Seals are doing it!" Whatever, the argument is old.

I think it's a bad way for a group to immediately go on the defensive and blame everything else as the major contributor.

So even though we have a free (really, self serve, no tips) pump out, you can sit all day on a park bench, and not see it used. And these harbors, Rockport, Camden, Rockland are all in their own NDZ as well as the 3 mi (another double threat!). We've done some promotional for using the pumps ashore, that's real help. 

But still, we get beach closures with no municipality to blame. 



Casco Bay is all an NDZ. I imagine that will happen to Penobscot Bay. That might help but I've never heard of anyone being fined or even warned about discharging their holding tank in Penobscot Bay.