installing Treadmaster the Anarchy way

[SVArcturus]

OK, in the US of A we seem too be able to access only certain types of Treadmaster nonskid.  Basically, only the large diamond pattern seems to be available in sheets without a self-adhesive backing.  I want to place the nonskid over old molded-in fiberglass nonskid and the PSA backing nonskid doesn't seem like a good match unless I grind all the molded-in nonskid off.  I don't wanna.

With the "regular" nonskid I can just mix up a slightly thickened epoxy to fill the existing nonskid and get a good bond.

Does anyone know: 

A.  of an adhesive compatible with the PSA that I can used to "fill the grain"?; or,

B.  of a solvent (acetone?) that will easily remove the PSA adhesive so I can then use epoxy to bond the nonskid. 

C.  any other ideas to attach this stuff.

And yes, I do want to use the less aggressive patterns for the cabin top and cockpit areas.  I'm using the big diamond stuff for the side decks and foredeck.

 

[USA 007]

The PSA will bond to the old nonskid without a problem. The foam is flexible enough to conform to the rough surface

 

[SVArcturus]

The PSA will bond to the old nonskid without a problem. The foam is flexible enough to conform to the rough surface

??? What foam?   There's only the tread master rubber with stickum on the back.  No foam, no flexibility for conforming.  The PSA will only be touching the tops of the molded in nonskid "bumps".  I sanded the old nonskid to reduce that profile a bit, but it still can't provide more than about 40% contact at most.

 

[SimonGH]

if you're willing to spread thickened epoxy over the non-skid then I would believe that it will all just "glue" together.  I doubt the epoxy would have some type of reaction with the PSA.  You could always do a test piece.  my belief is that it would just all cure together and the bond will be as strong as the weakest link (probably the PSA to the nonstick material itself).

Alternately you could trowel the epoxy over the non-skid and let it cure to a smooth surface, then lightly abrade the surface with 80 grit and then stick down the nonstick.  The non-skid profile would basically be a guide to keep your epoxy surface flat...

 

[SVArcturus]

Alternately you could trowel the epoxy over the non-skid and let it cure to a smooth surface, then lightly abrade the surface with 80 grit and then stick down the nonstick.  The non-skid profile would basically be a guide to keep your epoxy surface flat...

That was my backup approach if I couldn't find an easier good solution.  Hoping to avoid all the extra masking and sanding that solution would require.

Sure wish they still sold the non-PSA versions of those patterns like they did once upon a time.

 

[SVArcturus]

if you're willing to spread thickened epoxy over the non-skid then I would believe that it will all just "glue" together.  I doubt the epoxy would have some type of reaction with the PSA.  You could always do a test piece. 

While I'm a little skeptical that it will work, the test does seem worthwhile (if no one already knows that it does or doesn't work).

Thanks.

 

[Crash]

Have you looked into this?  Probably more expensive than treadmaster, but certainly lighter, and easier to replace/update?

https://www.harken.com/en/news/gripping-news-harken-introduces-harken-marine-grip/

 

[SimonGH]

its interesting because it literally shows it stuck to fiberglass non-skid...  so perhaps the adhesive layer is enough to "grab"

 

[SimonGH]

While I'm a little skeptical that it will work, the test does seem worthwhile (if no one already knows that it does or doesn't work).

Thanks.

I think you could just spread a little epoxy on the adhesive side of the non-skid and see what happens.  I think it will stick just fine.

 

[silversailor]

I installed SeaDek with PSA over the molded in dimpled nonskid in my cockpit. Just overlapped the nonskid by ¼” for extra adhesion and it worked perfectly. 

 

[USA 007]

Tre

??? What foam?   There's only the tread master rubber with stickum on the back.  No foam, no flexibility for conforming.  The PSA will only be touching the tops of the molded in nonskid "bumps".  I sanded the old nonskid to reduce that profile a bit, but it still can't provide more than about 40% contact at most.

Tread master, hydro turf, and seadeck are all similar FOAM products and will bond to the nonskid just like it is.  Acetone wash the surface to remove any wax residue and use a hard rubber linoleum roller to press it down after applying.

 

[SVArcturus]

Tre

Tread master, hydro turf, and seadeck are all similar FOAM products and will bond to the nonskid just like it is.  Acetone wash the surface to remove any wax residue and use a hard rubber linoleum roller to press it down after applying.

There are certainly different kinds of "foam", but even if Treadmaster meets the technical definition, it isn't remotely soft enough to conform to the underlying gelcoat nonskid.

So, are you saying you've installed Treadmaster this way and the edges didn't peel up over time?  That would be good news.

 

[SVArcturus]

if you're willing to spread thickened epoxy over the non-skid then I would believe that it will all just "glue" together.  I doubt the epoxy would have some type of reaction with the PSA.  You could always do a test piece.  my belief is that it would just all cure together and the bond will be as strong as the weakest link (probably the PSA to the nonstick material itself).

And...you got it.  Pulled on  the hardened epoxy and it just peeled the layer of PSA off the tread master.  Actually, I as rather surprised at how easily the PSA film peeled off, but maybe the corners are just "dried out" or something.

 

[SimonGH]

Perhaps you've discovered an easy way to remove the PSA first and then just epoxy the stuff down directly...

I have no experience with the stuff - does it wear down over time, such that you're going to want to replace it eventually?

Perhaps trying to glue it on so aggressively is not the right approach - ultimately you may want to be able to cleanly remove it in the future.

I would vote for creating a smooth surface with epoxy but let it cure first, then just use the PSA as intended to stick down the tread.  More work, but then in the future you may be saving yourself a lot of hassle because the PSA will be easier to remove and replace...

 

[SVArcturus]

The stuff lasts a long time.  I have some installed in 2003 on the bow and the cockpit sole that is still going strong.  The manufacturer sells epoxy for installation (then and now) and that's what I'd used.  The PSA versions were introduced later but one still had a choice of which you wanted.  While I don't worry too much about the middle of a sheet, I am a bit leery of the edges staying down over time with the PSA stickum.

It sort of looks like the U.S. importer quit bringing in the epoxy version except for the  large diamond pattern.  Last year it showed up in both versions on the website of the manufacturer in Great Britain.  Don't see Treadmaster even listed now.  Maybe they sold it to someone else.

And yes, removal wouldn't be recreational, but I don't figure to have to worry about that.  It will last longer than I am likely to need it.

 

[SVArcturus]

Perhaps you've discovered an easy way to remove the PSA first and then just epoxy the stuff down directly..

Indeed!   A rather pricy way to do it though.

 

[SVArcturus]

Tread master, hydro turf, and seadeck are all similar FOAM products and will bond to the nonskid just like it is.

I looked up Hydro Turf and Seadeck.  Your thinking they are similar to Treadmaster indicates you've never worked with Treadmaster.  The other two are indeed foam, and I'm sure they would comform fine to stick to molded-in nonskid.  Treadmaster is NOT similar and will not.

I do appreciate your attempt at helpful advice.

 

[silversailor]

Total Tread from Jamestown Distributors is a non-skid paint that looks promising. Can be installed, they tell me, directly over existing molded in non-skid.  Just scuff it up.

 

[SVArcturus]

Total Tread from Jamestown Distributors is a non-skid paint that looks promising. Can be installed, they tell me, directly over existing molded in non-skid.  Just scuff it up.

The crew/captain isn't fond of painted-on nonskid.  We used some on a previous boat and while it worked pretty well, the aesthetics didn't score points.  Probably my installation flaws, but we already have the Treadmaster, much of it already cut to shape, so we are committed to that path.