Interesting Data visualization of China eliminating AIS data from being accessible.

[Startracker]

Nevermind, I found one:

https://www.reboot-it.com.au/p/Used-Laptops/Panasonic-Laptops/Panasonic-ToughPad-CF-H2-MK1-i5-2557M-1.7GHz-2GB-1/3020-B

Ugly as sin, but no keyboard, probably slow but if it's just a display who cares.  175$.  

Not sure if that's the one you were looking at, I started googling the discontinued models that were listed as transflective tough pads available in Australia.  

https://revivedit.com.au/product/panasonic-toughbook-cf19-mk7/ 

Newer than mine, by a couple generations I think, might have multi-touch too which I kinda want.  I think it's one of the only models in the world that simply stays in the same form factor with better guts and screens.  They're on Mk8 now.  Very convenient for mounting, as mounts can be built in to cabinets and such knowing a replacement will be available for at least the next decade.  I'll probably buy a latest generation someday and the other one will become a parts machine/backup.  

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Nevermind, I found one:

https://www.reboot-it.com.au/p/Used-Laptops/Panasonic-Laptops/Panasonic-ToughPad-CF-H2-MK1-i5-2557M-1.7GHz-2GB-1/3020-B

Ugly as sin, but no keyboard, probably slow but if it's just a display who cares.  175$.  

Not sure if that's the one you were looking at, I started googling the discontinued models that were listed as transflective tough pads available in Australia.  

Yeah that's the model I just bought. As a computer, it'd suck. But if it runs linux I'm happy. Even if it doesn't I'll just run Win7 and use it as a display. I can install a VNC client on Win7 and control another computer actually doing all the work. Easy enough to run a Raspberry Pi headless and connect to it via Ethernet. And I've a bunch of Ethernet cabling on the boat already. Wifi is all well & good but I like cables for stuff I'm going to rely on working.

The stylus *might* be a better way to interact with OpenCPN than the touch screen itself.

Anyway I've spent a hell of a lot more money on electronic crap that ended up on the shelf so what the hell.

FKT

 

[Startracker]

Yeah that's the model I just bought. As a computer, it'd suck. But if it runs linux I'm happy. Even if it doesn't I'll just run Win7 and use it as a display. I can install a VNC client on Win7 and control another computer actually doing all the work. Easy enough to run a Raspberry Pi headless and connect to it via Ethernet. And I've a bunch of Ethernet cabling on the boat already. Wifi is all well & good but I like cables for stuff I'm going to rely on working.

The stylus *might* be a better way to interact with OpenCPN than the touch screen itself.

Anyway I've spent a hell of a lot more money on electronic crap that ended up on the shelf so what the hell.

FKT

If the newer ones could do it, I might buy one.   A shame the newer ones don't have the 6000 nit brightness though, and mounting would be less permanent.  Either way though, 175$ vs whatever silly price they charge for waterproof daylight readable touch screens with no batteries, hard to go wrong.  From memory the biggest challenges in getting tough books on linux were the touchscreen drivers, there's a few threads on getting CF-19s over.  Might be a good place to start digging.  Why would you choose a headless pi to run openCPN instead of a windows variant if you can't get linux on the toughpad?

I didn't mind the stylus on mine, I've used it when crawling around in the bilge in freezing weather with bulky gloves on.  It's accurate and functional but hard to hold onto since it's so skinny.  I bought a dollar store one that goes on my keys for a dollar.  Much nicer.  Have actually reached over and poked it with a bit of dowel when I couldn't reach.   It was not as good as the stylus.  I find a finger on the screen is not great for the work program I'm running.  It's ok for scrolling though, might just be my fat fingers. 

I'll take a picture sometime of the CF-19 hinge in action on a mount.  It's great, I can see being able to rotate the display all the way around on a helm mount as quite handy.  Spin it partway around to keep an eye on things while sitting under the hardtop comes to mind.  I've seen many flimsy version and I was really put off at first but the sales guy was right to talk me into it.  I wouldn't go back to traditional hinges now.  When it fell off an oil drum onto concrete the corner of the screen hit first, no change to the hinge.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

If the newer ones could do it, I might buy one.   A shame the newer ones don't have the 6000 nit brightness though, and mounting would be less permanent.  Either way though, 175$ vs whatever silly price they charge for waterproof daylight readable touch screens with no batteries, hard to go wrong.  From memory the biggest challenges in getting tough books on linux were the touchscreen drivers, there's a few threads on getting CF-19s over.  Might be a good place to start digging.  Why would you choose a headless pi to run openCPN instead of a windows variant if you can't get linux on the toughpad?

I might not. I can tolerate Win7. Anything later, forget it. Just that I have quite a lot of Raspberry Pi's about the place and they're nice little single board computers.

Even Win7 is a right PITA if you ever have a problem with your hard drive and have to reinstall. Better have the licence key et al handy.

Frankly I'd much rather run Win XP as long as the computer wasn't connected to the internet. Which it won't be.

Basically I've spent 40 years running competent operating systems and Windows sucks. I've seen & used every single release of a Microsoft o/s from the very first IBM PC up until that abortion of Vista, which was the absolute last straw and caused me to buy my first Macbook. I don't care if Windows is wildly predominant on the desktop, it still sucks. My career was in building data logging systems and databases that had to keep working 24/7 for months to years straight. I like things to work and not have to fuck with them all the time.

Anyway we'll see what this thing is like when I get it. As I was just quoted $650 plus $120 freight for a 1200+ NIT 10.1" transflective waterproof screen ex China, if this works I'll be happy. If not, back to the other option.

FKT

 

[Startracker]

I might not. I can tolerate Win7. Anything later, forget it. Just that I have quite a lot of Raspberry Pi's about the place and they're nice little single board computers.

Even Win7 is a right PITA if you ever have a problem with your hard drive and have to reinstall. Better have the licence key et al handy.

Frankly I'd much rather run Win XP as long as the computer wasn't connected to the internet. Which it won't be.

Basically I've spent 40 years running competent operating systems and Windows sucks. I've seen & used every single release of a Microsoft o/s from the very first IBM PC up until that abortion of Vista, which was the absolute last straw and caused me to buy my first Macbook. I don't care if Windows is wildly predominant on the desktop, it still sucks. My career was in building data logging systems and databases that had to keep working 24/7 for months to years straight. I like things to work and not have to fuck with them all the time.

Anyway we'll see what this thing is like when I get it. As I was just quoted $650 plus $120 freight for a 1200+ NIT 10.1" transflective waterproof screen ex China, if this works I'll be happy. If not, back to the other option.

FKT

I'm quite curious to see, not sure if the tech has evolved since then to mine.  Not curious enough to buy one yet though.  Prices have come down on the Chinese displays it sounds like.  

I miss XP.  Still keep Openoffice set to save in XP compatible .doc, because maybe someday...  I remember being so excited installing Vista for the first time, talk about a let down.    I was livid when they upgraded our work computers, when I had a horrible office job.   telnet MUDs were the only thing keeping my brain active enough to not lose my shit waiting for a customer to finish a 30 minute rant about a 30 second problem for the 100th time.  15$ an hour was not enough for that nonsense.  For 7 I long since gave up, and simply download a pirated copy, the enterprise one I think?  That doesn't need serial numbers.  I feel I've bought enough copies and lost them so they can suck it up.  The CF-19 is running 10 with classic shell on top.  I realized I am getting older and no longer excited by change for change's sake.  

I have also gone to the dark side.  The CF-19 is fine in the field, I run exactly one program on it.  That's all it does, and it's essentially just a mySQL database I think.  

I spent a bunch of money and time screwing around with external monitor adapters to work at home on it.  After 400$ worth of nonsense, and finally getting it working to discover it was so slow running the USB-HDMI that it was unusable.  Gave up and bought an iMac, 27", couple tb of SSDs and 32 gb of ram, quad core processor and Nvidia card.   400$ with the apple keyboard and mouse which met the budget requirement of costing the same or less than the previous fuckery.  Was a better deal before the screen fell out at 2am, but 3m 4000UV saved the day and I don't like webcams anyways.  It's a lovely machine.  It starts instantly to me, it never runs short on ram, it never stops to think, and it's 9 years old!    I only miss one thing from windows.  Move command or cut and paste of files.  Hate copy and then having to delete, drives me batshit.   With cleanmymac installed it is almost self maintaining.  I don't think I've yet so much as opened system preferences.  I was so pleased with it I got rid of android both tablets and phone, and went iPad, iPhone and AirPod pros once I discovered Swype had been added to the iOS store.  I hate tapping letters it's so slow.  Apple added swiping to write but it's really shit compared to Swype.  They all update themselves, they all talk to each other.  Everything is on everything at all times wherever I am.  if I have any one of them, I can find the others when I lose them.  the AirPods are the best thing ever.  How technology should be.  I have noise cancelling enabled via accessibility on individual use and use Comply foam tips after watching one sink off a swim grid.  One in my ear one in the case and I can hear a conversation right next to air tools, music sounds amazing with a bit of tweaking.  It even remembers roughly where I was if I leave them behind.   I probably talk and listen to my phone more than I use the screen most days, even texting.  No more paper notebooks or awkward calendar work arounds.  Someone schedules a meeting, I tell Siri to add it, she adds it to my calendar I can see at home and reminds me when I need to leave the house based on traffic.  I feel like I'm living in the Jetsons.   

 

[Ishmael]

Even Win7 is a right PITA if you ever have a problem with your hard drive and have to reinstall. Better have the licence key et al handy.

A quick fix to that is to clone the Win7 installation onto a SSD and change out the old disc drive for the SSD. Anything goes wrong, just copy the clone onto a new drive and you're good.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

A quick fix to that is to clone the Win7 installation onto a SSD and change out the old disc drive for the SSD. Anything goes wrong, just copy the clone onto a new drive and you're good.

Yeah that's basically what I do now with my Raspberry Pi's. There's a copier feature built into the o/s. Plug in a SSD and clone your currently running instance. Move cloned drive to new Pi, up and running.

And of course a fully backed up copy as needed.

FKT

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Oh yes the other reason to run a headless Pi is, you can connect to it from anywhere on the Ethernet system as the Pi runs an instance of VNC Server. All you need even on an old slow machine like the ToughPad is an instance of VNC client and you've got the display.

Maybe you can get free VNC Server software for Win7, dunno. I'll look into that if I have to.

If you're down below you can connect to the Pi and have its display on the screen where you can keep an eye on things.

That's what I'm doing ATM. You can see any AIS targets and see how you're swinging at anchor.

FKT

 

[hump101]

We use FZ-G1's and they run linux just fine, and are as fast as any other i5 laptop. Daylight-viewable screens and hot-swappable batteries with 7 hours of proper use per charge.

 

[Startracker]

We use FZ-G1's and they run linux just fine, and are as fast as any other i5 laptop. Daylight-viewable screens and hot-swappable batteries with 7 hours of proper use per charge.

Interesting!  How do you find them in use in sunlight?  I am kind of frustrated that all the newer models went away from transflective screens and at only 800 NITS vs the modern MFD at 1200 I have some questions.  They looked interesting, but the legacy ones like FKT is looking at are transflective like my CF-19.

Which Linux are you running?

I am a little concerned looking towards the future that none of the new models use transflective screens, and the backlights don't seem to hit the brightness I'd like to see for chart plotter replacement.  

@Fah Kiew Tu I found a few links online showing success with Linux mint up to 17.x, issues with touch on the newer versions.  

 

[hump101]

Viewable in direct sunlight, no problem. We have opensuse, mint, and kubuntu running on different units. The latest  we are using has kubuntu 20.04 with functioning touchscreen.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Viewable in direct sunlight, no problem. We have opensuse, mint, and kubuntu running on different units. The latest  we are using has kubuntu 20.04 with functioning touchscreen.

Interesting. Those FZ-G1 tablets are about 4X the price of the older one I bought but have a nicer form factor. I may end up buying one of those as well if they play nicely with a linux distro. See how the first one goes. A Mark 5 design wouldn't be anything unusual for me really.

Can't have too many bits of electronic crap about the place.

FKT

 

[Startracker]

Viewable in direct sunlight, no problem. We have opensuse, mint, and kubuntu running on different units. The latest  we are using has kubuntu 20.04 with functioning touchscreen.

Interesting.  I'd love to see a side by side comparison or get my hands on one to compare to the CF-19 in the sun.  Good to know there are updated units that are daylight readable in other form factors!  I was thinking CF-33 or CF-20, which don't have the transflective screens once my CF-19 becomes out dated.  

 

[hump101]

There are different versions, we have mk3 and mk6. I can't remember the details but I think there were changes between 2 and 3 that mattered, but between 3 and 6 the only difference is the version of the i5 processor. We bought them all secondhand, and there is lots of cheap accessories available secondhand too. We looked at the cf line as a cheaper alternative, but if you need real processing power the FZ is a better bet. I run time domain motion simulations on mine, when I am away from the big machines, and it is as fast as my cf52 laptop, really usable. The mk3 has an older version of bluetooth that can be a bit glitchy when modern headphones are connected as well as keyboard and trackball, so I have a modern BT dongle in the base station, but apart from that, all good. I'm typing this on it now.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

There are different versions, we have mk3 and mk6. I can't remember the details but I think there were changes between 2 and 3 that mattered, but between 3 and 6 the only difference is the version of the i5 processor. We bought them all secondhand, and there is lots of cheap accessories available secondhand too. We looked at the cf line as a cheaper alternative, but if you need real processing power the FZ is a better bet. I run time domain motion simulations on mine, when I am away from the big machines, and it is as fast as my cf52 laptop, really usable. The mk3 has an older version of bluetooth that can be a bit glitchy when modern headphones are connected as well as keyboard and trackball, so I have a modern BT dongle in the base station, but apart from that, all good. I'm typing this on it now.

In one of the pictures online I noticed a HDMI port - I think. Assuming that is what I saw, is that for displaying *to* another monitor as I expect, or can it be used for input from another device?

If it was available for input (ie use the tablet as a display) that would be nice. But I expect not. I have a small very bright HDMI screen intended for pro level video camera work in the field that has 2 HDMI ports for this reason. Lovely screen but at only 7", I want more. And of course it isn't waterproof or a touch screen.

In theory my new toy arrives today. In practice, the local last leg courier company is fucking hopeless, won't even attempt delivery and will drop it at the local Post Office and I'll get notified next week. Living in the sticks has its advantages, and the other things too.

FKT

 

[hump101]

All versions of the FZ-G1 have usb, hdmi, and audio on the side, then a top port that takes a range of modules such as a second usb, sd card reader, etc. I have only used hdmi out to an external monitor, so can't comment on whether hdmi in is possible. My base station has multiple hdmi connections. When I get back to base I will see if this can be configured as a monitor via the base station.

We also live in the sticks and have the same delivery issues, it seems to be universal.

 

[Startracker]

All versions of the FZ-G1 have usb, hdmi, and audio on the side, then a top port that takes a range of modules such as a second usb, sd card reader, etc. I have only used hdmi out to an external monitor, so can't comment on whether hdmi in is possible. My base station has multiple hdmi connections. When I get back to base I will see if this can be configured as a monitor via the base station.

We also live in the sticks and have the same delivery issues, it seems to be universal.

I'm all ears on this one too.  That would be excellent.  If the top port could be used for video in I'd be sold!  

 

[Startracker]

In one of the pictures online I noticed a HDMI port - I think. Assuming that is what I saw, is that for displaying *to* another monitor as I expect, or can it be used for input from another device?

If it was available for input (ie use the tablet as a display) that would be nice. But I expect not. I have a small very bright HDMI screen intended for pro level video camera work in the field that has 2 HDMI ports for this reason. Lovely screen but at only 7", I want more. And of course it isn't waterproof or a touch screen.

In theory my new toy arrives today. In practice, the local last leg courier company is fucking hopeless, won't even attempt delivery and will drop it at the local Post Office and I'll get notified next week. Living in the sticks has its advantages, and the other things too.

FKT

I live in the centre of a large city for this country.  I shipped a toaster.  So not hazmat, not heavy, not too small, not too big.  Via expedited shipping(3 day) for 30$ as a Christmas present.  32 days later it arrived.  I could have literally fucking walked there and back in 30 days.  

 

[hump101]

Any pc can be used as a second monitor using vnc over ethernet, so direct connection using a reversed ethernet cable into a port in the top module bay would work fine. No need for a router. I did this for years with my travelling rig, works well. I understand that win10 can do this also, but I have never tried it.

Edit: Bear in mind that with the port doors open the watertight integrity will be diminished so a wifi solution would be better. Vnc does this too.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Any pc can be used as a second monitor using vnc over ethernet, so direct connection using a reversed ethernet cable into a port in the top module bay would work fine. No need for a router. I did this for years with my travelling rig, works well. I understand that win10 can do this also, but I have never tried it.

Edit: Bear in mind that with the port doors open the watertight integrity will be diminished so a wifi solution would be better. Vnc does this too.

I don't need mine to be portable so am basically enclosing it except for the screen. That should protect the ports and I already have Ethernet cable & a small hub available.

Yes I could use wifi but I really don't want to - I prefer cabling for fixed equipment. You have to run a power cable so why not run an Ethernet cable and for more devices these days POE serves both purposes.

Different for a field tablet or one without an RJ45 port of course.

The Getac tablet looks like a nice device but too expensive used and only 800 nits. There are a couple available locally that claim to have HDMI in rather than out so in theory could be used as a direct display off of a Pi for example. Though VNC does the same thing really, as you note.

FKT