International 14 sailing in 25+ knots

[Matt D]

I went out for some frostbite sailing in fresh breeze on the I14 yesterday. Initially the winds were in the high teens, with proper tuning, quite handleable, lots of fun. The problems began when the wind picked up and the gusts were hitting 25+. It seemed even in straight lines, we were getting smacked down in some of the bigger gusts. I turn to this forum for some help on how to survive in these types of wind. (Perhaps the answer is to leave the I14 on shore, and rig my Tornado.)

We were sailing a B3, with Glaser set up. We were down on the clewboard, jib car all the way out, jib sheet eased to further open the slot, really eased in the puffs. We had max rake, rig tension was about 38 on the new Loos guage. Board up about 2' (60 cm). Kicker, cunno, outhaul on max. Lowers set up for marginal inversion before we put the main on, which straightened the lower mast out. Our combined weight is about 350 lbs (160 Kg), so though we're not lightweights, we're not heavyweights either.

The issue was that when some of the big gusts came through, even though we had very quick anticipation and thus reaction to ease main and jib, it was knocking us down violently, even though we would be just sailing on about the back/lower third of the jib in them.

Any tips on how to race/survive in these conditions? I assume it should be doable, esepecially in the relatively flat water we were sailing in. (there was chop, but no swell)

Cheers

 

[Skaf]

How was your "induced bend"? Have a look at photos of _Chris_ at the CDAs. Uppers were on so tight I thought he was going to pull the spreaders off! Absolutely NO shape to the top of his sail - completely depowered. A good thing, considering they were sub-300lbs between him and his crew...

Sounds like you had a great sail though!

-S

 

[Matt D]

How was your "induced bend"? Have a look at photos of _Chris_ at the CDAs. Uppers were on so tight I thought he was going to pull the spreaders off! Absolutely NO shape to the top of his sail - completely depowered. A good thing, considering they were sub-300lbs between him and his crew...

Sounds like you had a great sail though!

-S

Uppers were cranked to max. Combo of uppers, vang, and kicker left the top of the main had zero depth (good since it was only drag).

Nice pics!

Cheers,

-Princess

 

[Irrational 14]

How was your "induced bend"? Have a look at photos of _Chris_ at the CDAs. Uppers were on so tight I thought he was going to pull the spreaders off! Absolutely NO shape to the top of his sail - completely depowered. A good thing, considering they were sub-300lbs between him and his crew...

Sounds like you had a great sail though!

-S

Uppers were cranked to max. Combo of uppers, vang, and kicker left the top of the main had zero depth (good since it was only drag).

Nice pics!

Cheers,

-Princess

BINGO - I think there is your problem... not sure what rig you are using but the uppers are usually never maxed out. Use this control to match the luff curve of your specific mainsail.

 

[Matt D]

How was your "induced bend"? Have a look at photos of _Chris_ at the CDAs. Uppers were on so tight I thought he was going to pull the spreaders off! Absolutely NO shape to the top of his sail - completely depowered. A good thing, considering they were sub-300lbs between him and his crew...

Sounds like you had a great sail though!

-S

Uppers were cranked to max. Combo of uppers, vang, and kicker left the top of the main had zero depth (good since it was only drag).

Nice pics!

Cheers,

-Princess

BINGO - I think there is your problem... not sure what rig you are using but the uppers are usually never maxed out. Use this control to match the luff curve of your specific mainsail.

Bundy sent me a note saying effectively the same thing.

We have an older Beiker rig.

 

[Matt D]

Thanks for the input.

 

[i144ever]

Our uppers were not on max, I actually leave them a bit loser over 20knts and just relay on more and more cunno. In the breeze I really try and focus on keep the rig rolled slightly to weather. Particularly if there is puff coming, get the boat rolled to weather and then its easier to steer though it and instead of knocking down you just stand the boat up or maybe heel if you lose control. The Jib is also very important to keep the boat in control, I try not to turn it into a flag when the puffs hits but you need to ease it out. Crew is always ready with the main to to turn on 10% to keep the boat balanced with the power from the jib and so we don't dump to windward. Its sounds a bit funny, but try and think about it this way, sail as close as you can to dumping to windward in 20+knts and you'll end up flat more of the time!

This is the first boat I've had were I thought I could actually turn enough cunno and vang on to sail in 20+ knots. Check your system to add more play. You could even have a course adjust so that "off" is already tight.

 

[mustang__1]

what about batten tension? adding more tension, particularly up high, can make a sail a little more responsive to cunningham.

 

[mark1234]

I'll strike a slight note of dischord. All the setup things will influence how easy the boat is to sail in these conditions, particularly downhaul (I'd expect to see flappiness in the upper leech if that maxed..) but most of all, you have to drive right.

As _Chris_ said, the boat wants to be a bit over on top of you, but you also need to be very active on the helm. If you're from cat's (you mention the tornado) that's perhaps not coming naturally. Get the head out, pre-empt the gusts, sail a slightly lower course, keep the boat moving and on it's feet - feather it up into the onslaught, giving you/crew time to move the main, and resume your course. There should be no leeward heel excursions.

 

[Trevor B]

OK, here's my 2-cents worth for when it's really windy.

• Uppers should be tight enough to sail safely DOWNWIND with the kite up. Upwind they should be COMPLETELY slack at all times. The cunningham and leech tension should be bending the upper mast.
• The jib car should be in your regular (17 knot) spot. By dropping the car all the way to the rail you've essentially set the boat up for two-sail reaching all the time, which is rally hard when it's gusty. You need to have the sails sheeted in enough to feather the boat against them without tea-bagging immediately.
• When it's smoking windy you need to ease your lowers a bit so that you don't need to sail with so much vang on to flatten the main. Less vang allows the top to go away more which de-powers you.
• Squeeze away sofly in the lulls and jab up in the puffs. Try to use every lighter spot to accelerate the boat so you can feather in the blasts without slowing too much.

You may need more cunningham purchase. I seem to remember 8:1 with a wrap around the hand and pulling as hard as I could once we were both on the wire. I couldn't get it tight enough unless the rig was bent with the pressure of the crew weight.

Have fun.

 

[Bruno]

Have to agree with TB, soft uppers allows tip to dump off particularly with older rigs.

 

[BalticBandit]

As _Chris_ said, the boat wants to be a bit over on top of you, but you also need to be very active on the helm. If you're from cat's (you mention the tornado) that's perhaps not coming naturally. Get the head out, pre-empt the gusts, sail a slightly lower course, keep the boat moving and on it's feet - feather it up into the onslaught, giving you/crew time to move the main, and resume your course. There should be no leeward heel excursions.

One of the things that isn't initially obvious in such violent gusts is the effect of the "induced lull" that the "spreading" effect of the puff causes. there is a strong tendency to try to keep the boat flat rather than heeled to weather in that lull, and that is death. Because the lull lasts between 1-3 seconds, but then the blast hits in about 1/2 a sec and you just cannot react fast enough. In a cat you get a bit more time and dropping the weather hull isn't as scary as almost teabagging in a skiff.

Chris's point is spot on about wanting the rig on top of you as you go into the puff.

 

[Matt D]

Have to agree with TB, soft uppers allows tip to dump off particularly with older rigs.

Do the newer Beiker rigs really have that much different flex characteristics?

I'm not too worried about our keeping the rig ontop of us, we tend to do marginal weather heel as soon as the wind gets up. (I'm new to cats, not 14s).

 

[Trevor B]

Have to agree with TB, soft uppers allows tip to dump off particularly with older rigs.

Do the newer Beiker rigs really have that much different flex characteristics?

It's the same for the newer rigs too.

 

[RustySkiff]

Over cooked upwind.

Pull centreboard up 30cm (a foot in the outdated measurement) - this is important, keep pulling it up until you are comfortable this is when the boat stops tripping over the centreboard when the gust hits.

Lots of downhaul on main - but don't break the mast, although usually goes really quick just before the mast breaks.

car back on the headsail or just ease lots of jib sheet or do both (we can't car back so we just play the sheet-when the big gusts go pull it back on a little).

luff of the headsail just luffing.

Lots of vang, but if it's getting really really windy start easing vang and let the leach hang out there and look for the nearest port.

Bear-off a little and keep the speed up, don't stop the boat you'll lose control.

You can lean the boat into windward but if there are waves they will knock you off the boat - just keep the boat flat and don't get fancy.

 

[Tago_Mago]

The most important factor in sailing a boat well, is "how you sail the boat"

You can tune all you want, but at most levels of sailing, when it comes down to it, boat handling is going to be what makes or breaks you.

I sail a 29er. With a properly tuned boat in heavy air 25 + knots, our boat pretty much wants to blow over with the main out, as well. I think the biggest factor in keeping the boat flat, and fast upwind and down wind, assuming you are hiked and de-powered, is helming technique.

You need to balance the heel with the helm. Upwind: when you get a monster puff, feather up slightly, too keep the rig straight up and down. This will force the crew to sheet in the main sail in. Communicate: I am heading up, so the crew has time to react. You only feather slightly.

It is important to be looking upwind, at the water so you can see what is coming. Talk between skipper and crew. When you look up wind and see a dark puff coming in, communicate, and count down to it i.e "puff coming in 10 seconds" Keep your eyes peeled for variances in breeze, so you can anticipate your next move.