IOR is dead for a reason

Meat Wad

Super Anarchist
WTF is it with all the nostalgia? Post a photo and in 1 sec, you can tell is is an IOR POS.

IOR is dead because people got tired of doing hull speed and rolling like crazy downwind.

I get the nostalgia, but WTF, you wanna attract new younger viewers? or You want to hang on to the dead.





Oh I forgot, no one can afford the new J boats so yea. Lets all buy old POS IOR boats.

 

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Working to overcome my inner peace
quote-those-who-cannot-remember-the-past-are-condemned-to-repeat-it-george-santayana-25-87-01.jpg

 

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
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More complicated than that.

Don't forget MHS (J Milgram's invention). That finally became IMS. The idea being to get away from type-forming (which was a "sin" of IOR {and all previous rating systems as well}).

It wasn't merely the behavior. I'd argue that was actually beside the point--except on the West coast ("sleds" which , btw, were rated in IOR and cleaned up *under* IOR!)

Ultimately IMS replaced IOR (and then got stupid in much the same dynamic!--good bye IMS!). At first, IMS was remarkable. Old CCA boats had a second life. But then the smart clever designers figured out what part of the rule was lacking in capturing performance (dynamic behavior) and that led, through combination of factors, to the aforementioned death spiral of rule changes, costs, rule changes, owner's fed up, then something "better" came along...

 
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bgytr

Super Anarchist
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645
MHS was mostly George Hazen wasn't it?

 
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P_Wop

Super Anarchist
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Bay Area, CA
<long answer>

I think you have the wrong end of the stick, old chap.  Think about the owners and crews, not the boats.

Admiral's Cup, for example.  When else could you have 600+ mostly brand new 39 to 53 foot race boats battling it out all across the world every 2 years to be selected as one of their nation's 3-boat team?  57 offshore racing boats were sent to Cowes from everywhere, Japan, Australia, Argentina, USA, Canada, New Guinea, you name it, sailed by about 800 mostly amateur sailors, inshore and offshore.  Boats designed by dozens of different naval architects, yet all to a common rule.  And designed to go offshore, and frequently delivered home afterwards across an ocean.

If you think IOR boats were pigs to sail downwind, try the metre classes.  Lovely upwind (like most IOR boats) but they reach a terminal velocity downhill and thereafter get plenty of water on deck if it's windy.  Look at any of the 1987 Perth videos.

Yet almost every surviving 12-metre has been restored and races regularly.  8-metres, 6-metres and 5.5s have very competitive national and world championships, many new boats are being built to multiple designs, and sailed mostly by amateur sailors.  And the rule is mostly 40 years older than the IOR.  Pretty boats for sure, but a real handful to sail well, just like their later cousins.

It's not about the rule.

It was simply something that every weekend warrior could get out and do, and get some hard sailing in, round the cans and offshore.  Tens of thousands of sailors would be out on the water every weekend, worldwide, and if they were good and willing, could move up into the bigger boats, and eventually Admiral's Cuip.  We used to get 50 one-tonners at the Worlds, and 50 half-tonners for class 4 in Cowes Week, most of whom went on to do the Fastnet afterwards.  I did my first one in a half-tonner, a 27-footer.

Stop complaining.  It's part of the history that's continued into our modern sport, and has largely enabled it.

</long answer>

 

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
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MHS was mostly George Hazen wasn't it?
In terms of driving it forward that is surely the case. He was a PhD candidate right?

Do I have everything confused (again!)?

 
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fastyacht

Super Anarchist
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I was at Cowes week only once. Early 90s after sailing transatlantic. That was a *phenomenal* sailing situation! Never seen anything like it before or since! The Irish Admiral's cupper went on the bricks cutting it close in one race (I think around Isle of Wight). That was at the end of the IOR period, but still...I even hitched a ride as spin trimmer on a J24 one day and saw over 13 knots. I guess they fit right into the Solent waves. (And the annoying "and three two one WAVE!" guy on that boat...never heard THAT being done before or since!)

I loved the fact that there were a good number of wooden IOR boats--very competitive ones at that--and even some that were amateur built and did well. That is just not going to happen in the current arrangement...

You can build a carbon IC by yourself (but frankly better to buy one from Chris Maas haha). But to build your own 30 foot modern not offshore "offshore" racer? Roight. Uh-huh.

 

Left Shift

Super Anarchist
10,532
3,272
Seattle
I was at Cowes week only once. Early 90s after sailing transatlantic. That was a *phenomenal* sailing situation! Never seen anything like it before or since! The Irish Admiral's cupper went on the bricks cutting it close in one race (I think around Isle of Wight). That was at the end of the IOR period, but still...I even hitched a ride as spin trimmer on a J24 one day and saw over 13 knots. I guess they fit right into the Solent waves. (And the annoying "and three two one WAVE!" guy on that boat...never heard THAT being done before or since!)

I loved the fact that there were a good number of wooden IOR boats--very competitive ones at that--and even some that were amateur built and did well. That is just not going to happen in the current arrangement...

You can build a carbon IC by yourself (but frankly better to buy one from Chris Maas haha). But to build your own 30 foot modern not offshore "offshore" racer? Roight. Uh-huh.
You mean after that people started protesting "that guy (and his elk)" for flagrant ooching and pumping???

 

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
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You mean after that people started protesting "that guy (and his elk)" for flagrant ooching and pumping???
I think he was just helping his (seemingly) blind helmsman buddy to steer.

 
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Left Shift

Super Anarchist
10,532
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Seattle
I think he was just helping his (seemingly) blind helmsman buddy to steer.
J-24s back in the day. 

Standing on the cooler and giving the front edge of the hatch a HARD shove when you heard the "Wave" call could definitely get you moving faster downhill.  

Now, if the four crew were all sitting on the rail in a tight pack and put their forward hand with locked elbow on the deck behind their buddy and simultaneously bumped forward on the "Wave" call, every seven seconds or so, then you could definitely punch through the chop going uphill.  A certain famous and very successful J-24 sailor was observed using those techniques multiple times when getting bow out was critical, or just on the whole damn leg.

So it must have been OK.

 
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SPORTSCAR

Super Anarchist
For my sins, I have been sailing for over 60 years now and have raced under IOR,  IMS, JOG, Channel Handicap, IRC, JOG, Performance Handicapping and everything else that was ever promoted. Inshore, Offshore, dinghies and keel boats both plain and radical and plenty of One-Designs too.

Without question, the very best, closest, most competitive and most enjoyable yacht racing I ever did was IOR Level Rating racing. I know I can't impart that experience to those who have come along later; you had to be there. Those who were there know what I mean. 

 




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