IOR landfills?

SPORTSCAR

Super Anarchist
Gybing a blooper and chute must have really braided some halyards.
We had to work out if we were going to gybe again later which cleared them or if not, we often went up and swapped halyards aloft so that we could peel later if needed.
The bow-mans job was very different back then with many manouvers you don't see much these days. Gybe peels at wing marks (remember wing marks?) were either a smooth flowing elegant manouver and a joy to observe when carried out skillfully.... or a complete cluster-fuck with much accompanying profanity.
 

P_Wop

Super Anarchist
7,125
4,275
Bay Area, CA
I sailed Hawkeye in Trinidad in early 77. She went upwind like a rocket. I don't remember any details of the controls for the boards. Age, I guess!

And I did the 84 Kenwood cup on The Shadow, which we won. And yes, we had enormous long 2-man handles for the runners. Runner and backstay loads were just silly, but designer Mark Soverel was driving and that's what he wanted.
 

P_Wop

Super Anarchist
7,125
4,275
Bay Area, CA
Actually I think I was at the very front of the bus, like all nippers. Nothing to do with that grunt work in the middle. And I was certainly never invited back to fantasyland.
 

Livia

Super Anarchist
4,038
1,103
Southern Ocean
We had to work out if we were going to gybe again later which cleared them or if not, we often went up and swapped halyards aloft so that we could peel later if needed.
The bow-mans job was very different back then with many manouvers you don't see much these days. Gybe peels at wing marks (remember wing marks?) were either a smooth flowing elegant manouver and a joy to observe when carried out skillfully.... or a complete cluster-fuck with much accompanying profanity.
Sporty, now they’ll the younguns how you trim the blooper
 

Black Jack

Super Anarchist
Help me consider my options since this is thread is about IOR boats and sailing.

As many of you know I have these two great Mull 30s. I am crazy about these boats for emotional and practical reasons. One is listed for sale for a song (Surprisingly I haven't had too much interest despite the low price. When listed on SA a few months ago all I got was spammers and scammers.) Rather than turn it over to someone who doesn't recognize its value - I am considering sending one away to where i can sail her with other Half Tonners. Most likely Europe. I know that a late 60s/early 70s unmodified IOR boats are outrun by newer models with modern rudders and bulb keels for the most part.

Is it even worth sending one or should I just cash out and move on?

This little boat bested Windward Passage in 1969 at the SORC. She ushered the IOR era from the CCA. She is the reason Imp/Improbable were built based on the fun and winning records they had on her. She still needs to sail and race with the best of these IOR boats we love. I looks like Europe is the only place that is active after all these years.

IMG_9473.PNG
image0 (3).jpeg



Let's talk about the pros and cons of sending one there, buying a half tonner there or just getting out of the IOR game all together.
 
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12 metre

Super Anarchist
4,004
776
English Bay

May well be a Fast 310 - and the ad says it is a Briand design....

...But I have my doubts on it being a Briand. Like several French designers, he drew quite smooth and clean lines and it would be out of character for him to design a boat with a hard radius (chine) at the FDI point like this boat and the midship section looks out of place for a Briand as he typically used a fair amount of topside flare which is absent in this boat.

From what I can discern, Fast Yachts mainly bought 'out of production' molds that they rebranded. So it is possible they had little knowledge of who the designer was, or refused to acknowledge the actual designer (possible royalties) - like the builder did with the Buccaneer 295.

I'm no saying it cannot be a Briand - I just have my doubts.
 

bridhb

Super Anarchist
3,926
1,199
Jax, FL
Help me consider my options since this is thread is about IOR boats and sailing.

As many of you know I have these two great Mull 30s. I am crazy about these boats for emotional and practical reasons. One is listed for sale for a song (Surprisingly I haven't had too much interest despite the low price. When listed on SA a few months ago all I got was spammers and scammers.) Rather than turn it over to someone who doesn't recognize its value - I am considering sending one away to where i can sail her with other Half Tonners. Most likely Europe. I know that a late 60s/early 70s unmodified IOR boats are outrun by newer models with modern rudders and bulb keels for the most part.

Is it even worth sending one or should I just cash out and move on?

This little boat bested Windward Passage in 1969 at the SORC. She ushered the IOR era from the CCA. She is the reason Imp/Improbable were built based on the fun and winning records they had on her. She still needs to sail and race with the best of these IOR boats we love. I looks like Europe is the only place that is active after all these years.

View attachment 557333 View attachment 557334


Let's talk about the pros and cons of sending one there, buying a half tonner there or just getting out of the IOR game all together.
Those boats are very pretty. You own both?
 

@last

Anarchist
928
68
Help me consider my options since this is thread is about IOR boats and sailing.

As many of you know I have these two great Mull 30s. I am crazy about these boats for emotional and practical reasons. One is listed for sale for a song (Surprisingly I haven't had too much interest despite the low price. When listed on SA a few months ago all I got was spammers and scammers.) Rather than turn it over to someone who doesn't recognize its value - I am considering sending one away to where i can sail her with other Half Tonners. Most likely Europe. I know that a late 60s/early 70s unmodified IOR boats are outrun by newer models with modern rudders and bulb keels for the most part.

Is it even worth sending one or should I just cash out and move on?

This little boat bested Windward Passage in 1969 at the SORC. She ushered the IOR era from the CCA. She is the reason Imp/Improbable were built based on the fun and winning records they had on her. She still needs to sail and race with the best of these IOR boats we love. I looks like Europe is the only place that is active after all these years.

View attachment 557333 View attachment 557334


Let's talk about the pros and cons of sending one there, buying a half tonner there or just getting out of the IOR game all together.
Well this may or may not be helpful but my 2 cents, worth what you paid-lol.

Practically speaking, IOR is dead in the US, sell it and move on.

Options 1 or 2 are a little more complicated. Owning a boat is anything but practically speaking. For those passionate about it, it involves an emotional tie/draw and many times logic is not found in the same thought process. You have a boat that is very good looking, what are your feelings about it and is there more of the story to be written involving your ownership? For example, I owned a C&C 33 for 3 decades. I day sailed the boat, raced the boat, lived aboard full time for three years, got married on the boat, honeymooned on it and used it as a summer cottage over that 30 year span. Towards the end of ownership (truth be told it spent the last 4-5 years inside stored/unused) it came to feel like moving forward with it was just moving in a big circle. In other words, my chapter of the boats life story had come to an end, it was time to let go and let someone else write the next chapters. So dollar and sense non withstanding, if there is still a strong draw/bond/more of the story to be written, then send it off to Europe and enjoy all the adventures that will provide. Conversely, a case could be made if that chapter of the boats history is closed, sell it, go to Europe and enjoy the class resurgence there by purchasing something local (if available). From what I read, the boats over there are on their second lives and seem to be living very good second lives indeed. Small mini parellel. I have been lucky enough to spend close to 20 years racing a Maxi Morc 30. They are great boats that in their first lives were owned by folks with means who had them custom built, kitted with the latest and greatest sails and gear and sailed by some of the best in the sport. They are now in their second lives as PHRF boats and owned by people no less passionate about them, but not done with the same blank checkbook campaigns. So the chance to go buy a boat over there and sail with like minded people in boats that you are passionate about also sounds like a good idea.

Sorry to ramble on for so long. Not sure if that was any help, but good luck in your decision.
 

Tacoma Mud Flats

Have star, will steer by
Well this may or may not be helpful but my 2 cents, worth what you paid-lol.

Practically speaking, IOR is dead in the US, sell it and move on.

Options 1 or 2 are a little more complicated. Owning a boat is anything but practically speaking. For those passionate about it, it involves an emotional tie/draw and many times logic is not found in the same thought process. You have a boat that is very good looking, what are your feelings about it and is there more of the story to be written involving your ownership? For example, I owned a C&C 33 for 3 decades. I day sailed the boat, raced the boat, lived aboard full time for three years, got married on the boat, honeymooned on it and used it as a summer cottage over that 30 year span. Towards the end of ownership (truth be told it spent the last 4-5 years inside stored/unused) it came to feel like moving forward with it was just moving in a big circle. In other words, my chapter of the boats life story had come to an end, it was time to let go and let someone else write the next chapters. So dollar and sense non withstanding, if there is still a strong draw/bond/more of the story to be written, then send it off to Europe and enjoy all the adventures that will provide. Conversely, a case could be made if that chapter of the boats history is closed, sell it, go to Europe and enjoy the class resurgence there by purchasing something local (if available). From what I read, the boats over there are on their second lives and seem to be living very good second lives indeed. Small mini parellel. I have been lucky enough to spend close to 20 years racing a Maxi Morc 30. They are great boats that in their first lives were owned by folks with means who had them custom built, kitted with the latest and greatest sails and gear and sailed by some of the best in the sport. They are now in their second lives as PHRF boats and owned by people no less passionate about them, but not done with the same blank checkbook campaigns. So the chance to go buy a boat over there and sail with like minded people in boats that you are passionate about also sounds like a good idea.

Sorry to ramble on for so long. Not sure if that was any help, but good luck in your decision.
You succinctly define the emotional problem with boats.

A great summary of an eternal dilemma.
 

Black Jack

Super Anarchist
Well this may or may not be helpful but my 2 cents, worth what you paid-lol.

Practically speaking, IOR is dead in the US, sell it and move on.

Options 1 or 2 are a little more complicated. Owning a boat is anything but practically speaking. For those passionate about it, it involves an emotional tie/draw and many times logic is not found in the same thought process. You have a boat that is very good looking, what are your feelings about it and is there more of the story to be written involving your ownership? For example, I owned a C&C 33 for 3 decades. I day sailed the boat, raced the boat, lived aboard full time for three years, got married on the boat, honeymooned on it and used it as a summer cottage over that 30 year span. Towards the end of ownership (truth be told it spent the last 4-5 years inside stored/unused) it came to feel like moving forward with it was just moving in a big circle. In other words, my chapter of the boats life story had come to an end, it was time to let go and let someone else write the next chapters. So dollar and sense non withstanding, if there is still a strong draw/bond/more of the story to be written, then send it off to Europe and enjoy all the adventures that will provide. Conversely, a case could be made if that chapter of the boats history is closed, sell it, go to Europe and enjoy the class resurgence there by purchasing something local (if available). From what I read, the boats over there are on their second lives and seem to be living very good second lives indeed. Small mini parellel. I have been lucky enough to spend close to 20 years racing a Maxi Morc 30. They are great boats that in their first lives were owned by folks with means who had them custom built, kitted with the latest and greatest sails and gear and sailed by some of the best in the sport. They are now in their second lives as PHRF boats and owned by people no less passionate about them, but not done with the same blank checkbook campaigns. So the chance to go buy a boat over there and sail with like minded people in boats that you are passionate about also sounds like a good idea.

Sorry to ramble on for so long. Not sure if that was any help, but good luck in your decision.

quite succinct shaping of the dilemma and the emotion that drives us to have boat like this.
I know I have to let one go soon. I already have taken a financial bath I had no business doing in keeping two of them. True to similar years, my actual sailing season was cut short in addressing deferred maintenance of the one that returned to me in the Spring.

I completely understand those folks like me who own IOR legends. I can admit that maybe I was meant to only be crew rather than captain in my attempt to sit in the cockpit of my sailing heroes' boats. To be sure these early IOR boats turned out to be excellent shorthanded boats as well as decent and easy PHRF racers. They are a joy to sail and cruise. They do not have the technical panache of a 20kt plus hulls or draw hotshot crew to break regatta records like they once did. They are no longer the fastest in the bay or in ocean racing bit the trade off is they were well made ensuring they would last, are so stiff to make make upwind work a pleasure and ultimately forgiving in most conditions.

For sure - there are few boats that go to weather like this.



Once I get this lady above to a new loving home - There will be time to consider my next move.
 
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LordBooster

Super Anarchist
1,954
481
May well be a Fast 310 - and the ad says it is a Briand design....

...But I have my doubts on it being a Briand. Like several French designers, he drew quite smooth and clean lines and it would be out of character for him to design a boat with a hard radius (chine) at the FDI point like this boat and the midship section looks out of place for a Briand as he typically used a fair amount of topside flare which is absent in this boat.

From what I can discern, Fast Yachts mainly bought 'out of production' molds that they rebranded. So it is possible they had little knowledge of who the designer was, or refused to acknowledge the actual designer (possible royalties) - like the builder did with the Buccaneer 295.

I'm no saying it cannot be a Briand - I just have my doubts.
Difficult to find any pics of the forward sections of a Briand half-tonner, but found this (scroll down):


Try to find more in this list:

 

@last

Anarchist
928
68
quite succinct shaping of the dilemma and the emotion that drives us to have boat like this.
I know I have to let one go soon. I already have taken a financial bath I had no business doing in keeping two of them. True to similar years, my actual sailing season was cut short in addressing deferred maintenance of the one that returned to me in the Spring.

I completely understand those folks like me who own IOR legends. I can admit that maybe I was meant to only be crew rather than captain in my attempt to sit in the cockpit of my sailing heroes' boats. To be sure these early IOR boats turned out to be excellent shorthanded boats as well as decent and easy PHRF racers. They are a joy to sail and cruise. They do not have the technical panache of a 20kt plus hulls or draw hotshot crew to break regatta records like they once did. They are no longer the fastest in the bay or in ocean racing bit the trade off is they were well made ensuring they would last, are so stiff to make make upwind work a pleasure and ultimately forgiving in most conditions.

For sure - there are few boats that go to weather like this.



Once I get this lady above to a new loving home - There will be time to consider my next move.

Thanks for the vid, she looks right in her element. A few random thoughts.

Just my two cents, but one of the things I have always strived for was to be a good caretake for my boats. I was never the first owner and like many/most not the last either. I can see that both of your boats are a labor of love so kudo's for that. Also as a little side rant while I do appreciate the advance of modern design giving us things like TP 52's, Melges 24s etc. which are all beautiful, I think having a sense of history which you do is also important. So when I see an old S&S classic or going way back something that Capt Nate penned I think the timeless qualities of those boats is something to be admired.

Try not to sell yourself short with the comment about being capt. vs crew. Winning is a whole different topic involving elements of an owner who has the funds and knows how to be a good "chef" (combining all the right elements of design, built, equipment, crew and at times a bit of luck/timing-could WP be built on a beach in the Bahama's today with the same end result-am guessing not.). Some boats carry this, good juju or whatever forward from owner to owner, many do not.

Ok enough of my ramblings. Good luck if/when the time comes to part company, am sure there will be many more adventures waiting for you to fill the void left.
 

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