IOR landfills?

12 metre

12 metre

Super Anarchist
3,745
612
English Bay
Rain Man said:
Add a carbon rig and rigging, better foils, fathead main, masthead asym and remove all non-essential weight, and the boat would be very fast.  The limiting factor is the hull, which wasn't vacuum bagged during build and is too heavy to be really fast.  Add enough ballast to solve the righting moment problem and the boat is overall too heavy to be quick.  CBTF?
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Well AK has done most if not all of the rig and sail plan alterations you suggest.  RM issues could be solved without adding weight by either a  T-keel or upside down keel similar to the Davidson 29 - which has the same weight but much lower VCG than the trapezoidal one on the Dash.  The trapezoidal keel was one of the developments of IOR that unfortunately caught on as a racy look with a lot of  production boats.  An efficient planform - but results in a high VCG

I mentioned the upside down keel idea to Ross when we were out sail testing a J/29 and he said that funnily enough Juan K. suggested an upside down keel back in the day when Ross had a Dash.

 
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zenmasterfred

zenmasterfred

Super Anarchist
1,533
534
Lopez Island
WSD is rotting away in Anacortes, WA, an old friend and former North Sails guy who is now into Alfa Romeos owns her, asked me if I want to be a partner and I ran away as fast as my old limbs would allow me. I walked up a ladder and walked on the deck, was careful not to fall through.   Very sad ending to a great Schumacher boat.  Owned an Express 37 for 10 years, a magic boat.

 
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LordBooster

Super Anarchist
1,395
265
zenmasterfred said:
WSD is rotting away in Anacortes, WA, an old friend and former North Sails guy who is now into Alfa Romeos owns her, asked me if I want to be a partner and I ran away as fast as my old limbs would allow me. I walked up a ladder and walked on the deck, was careful not to fall through.   Very sad ending to a great Schumacher boat.  Owned an Express 37 for 10 years, a magic boat.
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Really sad about WSD. When was WSD designed, perhaps -81?

 
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sledracr

Super Anarchist
4,704
812
PNW, ex-SoCal
LordBooster said:
Really sad about WSD. When was WSD designed, perhaps -81?
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From an old article in Latitude-38


Carl's best effort in this direction so far has been the 38-ft Wall Street Duck, built for Tiburon's Jim Robinson. In 1982 Robinson had plans to move up from a J/24 to a 45-ft IOR machine, but then decided something a little smaller might be better. Dee Smith and Chris Corlett, who were working with him, didn't think Carl was ready for the bigger boat, but called him when Jim decided on something that could win him the Danforth and Stone Cup series here on the Bay and also do well in the TransPac. They also consulted with - who else? - Doug Peterson, but Robinson was willing to take a calculated gamble on the Alamedan.

The Duck represents an extension of the same concepts that went into Summertime Dream, except the stern is a bit more pinched in for a rating advantage. The boat has proven itself to be dynamite, winning the Stone Cup twice, the Danforth Series twice, the Big Daddy regatta and the San Francisco Challenge Cup match race earlier this spring. A broken rudder in the 1983 TransPac quashed any hopes of doing well there, but they were moving up rapidly in their class standings when the mishap occurred.



Old thread here: Wall Street Duck - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

 
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LordBooster

Super Anarchist
1,395
265
sledracr said:
From an old article in Latitude-38


Carl's best effort in this direction so far has been the 38-ft Wall Street Duck, built for Tiburon's Jim Robinson. In 1982 Robinson had plans to move up from a J/24 to a 45-ft IOR machine, but then decided something a little smaller might be better. Dee Smith and Chris Corlett, who were working with him, didn't think Carl was ready for the bigger boat, but called him when Jim decided on something that could win him the Danforth and Stone Cup series here on the Bay and also do well in the TransPac. They also consulted with - who else? - Doug Peterson, but Robinson was willing to take a calculated gamble on the Alamedan.

The Duck represents an extension of the same concepts that went into Summertime Dream, except the stern is a bit more pinched in for a rating advantage. The boat has proven itself to be dynamite, winning the Stone Cup twice, the Danforth Series twice, the Big Daddy regatta and the San Francisco Challenge Cup match race earlier this spring. A broken rudder in the 1983 TransPac quashed any hopes of doing well there, but they were moving up rapidly in their class standings when the mishap occurred.



Old thread here: Wall Street Duck - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums
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Well done: "They also consulted with - who else? - Doug Peterson, but Robinson was willing to take a calculated gamble on the Alamedan."

 
10thTonner

10thTonner

Bungler
1,433
465
South of Spandau
12 metre said:
That may be true to an extent - but such boats usually couldn't go uphill worth a shit.  Which is where IOR boats typically excelled.

Downwind speed may be fun - and make great GoPro videos to post on Youtube.  But IMO the upwind legs are where most inshore races are won or lost.
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Don’t forget the Scandinavian answer. Slim, light agile descendants of the square meter classes that went uphill even better than the tonners and did not roll downwind. Not many that made it to the US, but over here boats like  H-Boat, BB10, Ylva, Karavel, Molich X Meter, Swede 55, or, to some extend, Aphrodite 101, Senorita Helmsman, International 10.06, Concorde 38 or Luffe 37 are still kicking it from the Baltic to the alpine lakes. 

 
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LordBooster

Super Anarchist
1,395
265
10thTonner said:
Don’t forget the Scandinavian answer. Slim, light agile descendants of the square meter classes that went uphill even better than the tonners and did not roll downwind. Not many that made it to the US, but over here boats like  H-Boat, BB10, Ylva, Karavel, Molich X Meter, Swede 55, or, to some extend, Aphrodite 101, Senorita Helmsman, International 10.06, Concorde 38 or Luffe 37 are still kicking it from the Baltic to the alpine lakes. 
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Yes, don't forget Lotus and Knud Reimers S30.

 
Black Jack

Black Jack

Super Anarchist
1,893
570
Alameda, California
I am not sure but the new Wonder Woman may use a 3Di material for a sportier flogging main. The IOR Diana used a lesser polymer material aloft and relied more on well constructed bloopers for balance. 

Screen Shot 2021-01-11 at 12.05.33 PM.png

Screen_Shot_2021-01-11_at_12_09.10_PM.png

 
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Maxx Baqustae

Maxx Baqustae

Super Anarchist
5,150
271
Canadian Southwest
10thTonner said:
Don’t forget the Scandinavian answer. Slim, light agile descendants of the square meter classes that went uphill even better than the tonners and did not roll downwind. Not many that made it to the US, but over here boats like  H-Boat, BB10, Ylva, Karavel, Molich X Meter, Swede 55, or, to some extend, Aphrodite 101, Senorita Helmsman, International 10.06, Concorde 38 or Luffe 37 are still kicking it from the Baltic to the alpine lakes. 
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Tell it to Bill Lee. We had 14 boats in the "50 Fleet' in Seattle which I was part of on "Delicate Balance" and we usually won. Also, 2 O.A. wins in Straits in various conditions against IOR boats. That said we had Charlie & Jonathan McKee, Poncho and Norm Davant too so that didn't hurt. That said it was a long-time team going back to the late '70s. Frankly. It didn't matter much what boat. IOR, ULDB or Ripple and Dark Star.    

 
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LordBooster

Super Anarchist
1,395
265
Maxx Baqustae said:
Tell it to Bill Lee. We had 14 boats in the "50 Fleet' in Seattle which I was part of on "Delicate Balance" and we usually won. Also, 2 O.A. wins in Straits in various conditions against IOR boats. That said we had Charlie & Jonathan McKee, Poncho and Norm Davant too so that didn't hurt. That said it was a long-time team going back to the late '70s. Frankly. It didn't matter much what boat. IOR, ULDB or Ripple and Dark Star.    
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Great statement: "Frankly. It didn't matter much what boat. IOR, ULDB or Ripple and Dark Star." 

 
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