Is the SMS Rule Broken, I Think NOT

tedrules

Member
66
32
Sydney
There have been grumblings for quite a while about the SMS Rating System being broken and not working. Frankly the claim is bullshit, perpetuated over the years by people with old sports boats who cannot beat the more modern boats in all but light air. A look at results under SMS will show that it is working as good as any rating system, if not better. There is no evidence that the SMS rule does not work well!

In races at this year’s Nationals there were two ties and three other times when boats finished within 5 seconds of each other. At last year’s Nationals in a total of just 5 races there were 6 ties, and 17 other times boats finished within 5 seconds of each other. In last year’s Queensland States there was one tie and 6 other times when boats finished within 5 seconds. There are not many other rating systems that give results this close.

Of the 15 Australian Sports Boat Association (ASBA) National Championships that have been held there are 7 times when Thompsons, Melges or an Elliot, all heavy boats, have won. The last time a Thompson won was last year!

It is not possible under any rating rule to rate boats of widely differing displacements and sailing characteristics evenly across all sailing conditions. The heavier sports boats perform well in the lighter winds and the more modern lighter one go better in the stronger breeze. But every dog has its day and from the results above the SMS Rating System is doing a great job. There is room to fine tune it a bit but the results speak for themselves. The results above do not indicate any problem with the SMS rating system. In fact it seems to be fulfilling the charter mapped out by the first committee of ASBA to the letter.

There is no doubt that the SMS Rating favours lighter, more sporty boats as this is why it was brought into being in the early 2000s when people were starting to sail more powerful/ hotter trailer sailers but were still being beaten on handicap by the slower heavier boats on the CBH system.

See below from the ASBA website:

SMS Rating

The Australian Sports Boat Association has adopted SMS™ as its primary rating system. SMS is the Sports Boat Measurement System developed by Yacht Racing Services Association (YRSA). SMS is a derivative of AMS. The SMS Year runs from October 1 to September 30 each year. A boat’s SMS needs to be valid at the time of racing and therefore needs to be re-validated each year.

The SMS ratings are based on measurement of the hull, displacement, and sail measurements of the vessel and a time on time rating is calculated. This rating is applied to the elapsed time of the boat to obtain its corrected time for the race.

SMS has been split off from the rest of the AMS population to allow for development of the system to better recognise the unique characteristics of sports boats. This system will be developed over time to ensure it best meets the needs of sports boat sailors in Australia.

The Australian Sports Boat Association's technical committee discusses feedback from members and presents this to the YRSA Measurement and Handicapping Committee to ensure that the formula is developed through direct input of the Australia sports boat sailing community and The Australian Sports Boat Association members.

All the information on SMS, including online Re-validation of your SMS & the SMS Year Book can be found on the YRSA web site.

To renew your SMS certificate it has to be done online.
Simply go to
www.raceyachts.org



Below is an excerpt from the ASBA Constitution.

15. HANDICAPS

15.1. Association sanctioned events shall be raced under an externally administered (i.e. by an independent body to the Association) measurement based rating system (SMS) agreed upon by the first Committee of the Association (hereinafter referred to as the primary handicap system)

SO WHY are there disgruntled rumblings about SMS not working. Well one of the most vocal voices has been from a guy who has complained that the “light shitters have devalued his boat” He owns a Thompson 7 and has not sailed in a national championship or many other ASBA regattas for at least 7 years. The ASBA was put in place to foster development of fast sports boat, what does he expect with a boat designed more than 20 years ago! There are guys that spend 50 times what he has on a TP52 to be the latest and greatest on IRC for a few years if they are lucky and then become also rans when a new boat comes onto the scene. He wants to be the boat to beat in the sports boat fleet with a 24year old design. He’s dreaming!

If rumours are repeated over and over for a number of years, even if there is no factual basis for them, keyboard warriors can garner some followers, whatever they say. Now, ever since I put a boat of my concept on the water, the REO 7.2, the vendetta against the boat and me started. This boat has won three ASBA Nationals, this year with Luke Ratcliff and twice previously with me helming. I have also designed larger boat, the REO 7.7, placing second in the last three nationals with her and winning our state championships with 5 firsts and a second from the 6 races.

All other sports boats have been designed by recognised yacht designers with minimal knowledge of the idiosyncrasies of the rating system. These are all good boats that sail well but often have features that do not rate well. Many owners have optimised their boats a little to help minimise the rating but none have spent the time that I have analysing all of the information available. I have designed my boats from the ground up to be fast and take maximum advantage of parts of the rule I have observed will give them a lower rating.

So now after a decade or so of Shaw 650s winning regattas and heavier boats winning regattas in lighter conditions on SMS there are a core of owners who have banded together and are decrying that SMS is broken. They cannot bring themselves to race against the REO boats from my stable on SMS as they know the writing is on the wall and the REO boats will win if there is any reasonable breeze.

This is very flattering, that my designs have scared them off but I love the sport of sailing and I am not happy that without any communication to the ASBA Committee, now headed by Michael Brierley in Brisbane this group have decided not to support the ASBA Fleet.

Forums and social media are great places for the exchange of ideas but there is also the side where those hidden behind their keyboards without any real knowledge of what they are talking about can throw slurs and negative innuendos around. They have more time on their hands than many people like myself, running a business with multiple other projects on the go. It is a waste of time replying to them as they will always come back with a wise arse comment as they need to have the last say.

I have been on this planet for over 60 years and I don’t really give a shit about what other people, who I do not respect have to say, so I will not bother answering negative comments. I am just passionate about this great sport of sailing and have spent decades on committees and coaching to build classes.

The REO boats are optimised for the SMS rating by making use of the following observations that reduce ratings:

  • Boats that are perceived to have little sail area for their length rate better. The REO boats are relatively light and therefore do not need too much sail area. They are a little sticky in light air but rate well enough to be competitive across the range pretty well.
  • Deep draft is penalised. The REO boats have more form stability than all the other boats so a shorter keel is not a disadvantage.
  • Mainsail area is penalised more than area in the jib so the J on REO boats is a bit longer compared to most others.
  • The length of the retractable pole is penalised, so REO boats have a shorter pole. The Assy overlaps the jib more than other boats so there is more work to do in the gybes (jibes) but as we sail hot angles all of the time there is no other detriment to performance.
Most of the people in sports boats in Australia do not know my background and it seems do not take kindly to someone they don’t know that well beating them. Apart from placing in the top 5 in the world in 5 classes, which none of them have done, I have sailed in two America’s Cups, been an Olympic class coach and skippered a yacht to win the Blue Ocean Point Score, the premier ocean racing series at the CYCA in Sydney.

So those who do not want to compete against my boats under SMS have scampered into the Trailer Division at Airlie Beach Race Week. The boats that entered the sports boat division have now followed them.

I have done a spreadsheet analysis of how the fleet rates under CBH and have found that as you would expect, the heavier boats rate better, most between 3% to 7% better. The REO7.2 takes a bit of a hit on rating under CBH but the REO 7.7 is still pretty good as she is not that light. What does stand out also is that the bigger boats rate substantially better, Vivace coming in at more than 8% better under CBH, relatively better than most of the heavier boat that are up to 3 feet shorter. The boys from Mackay sail her well so it would be a good bet to put your money on them!
 
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Turkey Slapper

Super Anarchist
5,750
69
Queensland
This is going to be fun!

especially after mentioning slurs etc where your whole diatribe of shit here is just that! Funny, there is more proof out there than you want to lead on, as your from what it looks like are trying to profit from pushing a product in this class! And in doing so, ruined it! You will find asba was created to attempt rate a bunch of similarish boats, then self interest got involved, but its ok, you wernt the first! Actually this Anarchy forum was the breeding ground of the asba back in the early 2000's, all the info is here!

There is one of the issues with sms, you! Close racing mwah ha ha, there was 6 boats in the nationals, smallest fleet ever, well till after this year's Airlie where you didn't get enough entries for a division!

I noticed you didn't mention how in one nationals you were removed from the results due to having a wrong cert, mabe an accident, who knows, but not wanting to right the wrong was a little embarrassing eh?

And then the recent Brisbane nationals, where your measurements were found to be wrong, again! (That's right for all those wondering he measured his own boat, sails to gain an unfair rating) which measurement allows an owner, especially one with a proven record of wrong measurements measure their own boat?

As for the 7.7 m boat that consistently gets hosed by its smaller version (still no publicised accounts of it passing the iso test like e ery Qld boat showed) and last brisbane nationals the shaw 650s hosing it! Bigger boats are supposed to go faster arnt they? Unless so dumbed down for a rating push they have ended up slower than they should be!

Brisbane nats barge, V Shaw 650, lets look at them eh, 5 races, massive fleet in comparison to your sydney nats, cause you will put your "bullshit" spin in them for sure!

Race 1 - Shaw by 1.14mins

Race 2 - Reo by 23 sec

Race 3 - reo by 11sec

Race 4 - reo by 2 sec

Race 5 - Shaw by 3min 58 sec!

Thats not convincing in anyone books a 7.7 m boat against an old design Shaw 650!

The only one believing the bullshit you preached above is You Tedrules! If it was true, Airlie, traditionally the biggest sportboat fleet annually for many of a year would of had enough entries to form a div, and that's 5 minimum for those that were wondering! Last couple of years there has been no fleet due to lack of numbers! And your one of the main causes for this!

Oh the shame you had to follow the 'scampered' boats, but why didn't you go to phs, considering as you mentioned people left the div cause of 'you!
 

Berndty

Member
98
12
qld aus
Andrew. Simple question. If you think Asba and Sms is not in crisis then why was there only 4 boats left in the Asba constituted SMS division at Airlie and 15 or 16 others in the Trailable Yacht division racing under CBH??? Why were those 4 boats asked to reconsider the division that there were entered in. The writing is on the wall.
You can not silence and delete our comments here. You have to face the truth and facts.
The last 12 months if the Asba is a disgrace and it was in your hands.
You fucked that and we all went else where now you and your mate have also jump ship and if you continue to do so you will fuck and system and great fleet numbers once again.
 
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JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,170
1,562
Sydney mostly
Guys, everyone is over reacting, and your allowed to.
Normally I would not venture into this but I have spent quite a bit of effort and money over the last 12 months to come play Sports-boats, I think I have earned the right.

#1stly Berndty and Turkey Slapper, this is not your problem, sure you are more than welcome to give a POV, but whether or not TedRules actually dose something or not is not your problem. If XYZ chooses to do nothing and no one comes play, then its XYZ's problem.

#2ndly Just read the Tea-leaves, Empirical trumps Theoretical every-time. Nat = #1, Airlie beach = #2 & #3 is the turnout at Airlie in the Trailer Boat division and in such number that they have split the fleet. We have entered the FE28R in the Trailer Boat division, I don't know if we considered entering in the SMS, I did not do that, but when I am responsible (mid Sept I hope to have the 89er on the water) there are 19 Super 30 races and that many again away races none of which mandate SMS, plus I will be in Port Lincoln at the time of the Nats, why would I. &

#3rdly, sticking your head (XYZ) in the sand and saying there is no problem when Nats/Airlie/TrailerBoat empirically and overwhelmingly would suggest otherwise only makes it worse. Perception is truth, even if it's bullshit! So when you finally decide to move and "repair" the perception you have to go way-overboard to regain trust.

Again, those of us who just want to go sailing, plenty of sailing to be had without SMS. If SMS has a "perceived problem" then it is very much their problem, and they have to fix it (while we all go have fun sailing else where).

That is certainly what I intend to so, until someone gives me a reason to do something else.

I could go on, about what I do in my other life and how we are proactive with this stuff, but I won't bore you and bring on summer!!!

See you all in Airlie, no doubt some bar-room chatter will be had.

jB
 

Turkey Slapper

Super Anarchist
5,750
69
Queensland
Guys, everyone is over reacting, and your allowed to.
Normally I would not venture into this but I have spent quite a bit of effort and money over the last 12 months to come play Sports-boats, I think I have earned the right.

#1stly Berndty and Turkey Slapper, this is not your problem, sure you are more than welcome to give a POV, but whether or not TedRules actually dose something or not is not your problem. If XYZ chooses to do nothing and no one comes play, then its XYZ's problem.

#2ndly Just read the Tea-leaves, Empirical trumps Theoretical every-time. Nat = #1, Airlie beach = #2 & #3 is the turnout at Airlie in the Trailer Boat division and in such number that they have split the fleet. We have entered the FE28R in the Trailer Boat division, I don't know if we considered entering in the SMS, I did not do that, but when I am responsible (mid Sept I hope to have the 89er on the water) there are 19 Super 30 races and that many again away races none of which mandate SMS, plus I will be in Port Lincoln at the time of the Nats, why would I. &

#3rdly, sticking your head (XYZ) in the sand and saying there is no problem when Nats/Airlie/TrailerBoat empirically and overwhelmingly would suggest otherwise only makes it worse. Perception is truth, even if it's bullshit! So when you finally decide to move and "repair" the perception you have to go way-overboard to regain trust.

Again, those of us who just want to go sailing, plenty of sailing to be had without SMS. If SMS has a "perceived problem" then it is very much their problem, and they have to fix it (while we all go have fun sailing else where).

That is certainly what I intend to so, until someone gives me a reason to do something else.

I could go on, about what I do in my other life and how we are proactive with this stuff, but I won't bore you and bring on summer!!!

See you all in Airlie, no doubt some bar-room chatter will be had.

jB
Looking forward to it! I like the point sail else where, a lot of us have, and the shit has come to us, but it's still our fault! Head is so stuck in sand by some, they wrote a thousand words proving said head stuck! So many have walked the last year or 2 from the sms asba issue, why? Original Poster proved this, then do dodgy shit, the world loses confidence in the system, and especially its puppets even more! Is there a qld member anymore? A state that has allways had the biggest fleets!

The best bit is bagging the old boats, the boats relied on for years to get numbers up, the same boats the rule was created for, to get them all sailing together and fairly, then when the rating chasers turn up with their underperformed boats then wonder why they all leave, as there has been Nothing done since 08 to bring the balance back between the boats!
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,170
1,562
Sydney mostly
Look I really should shut up and go sailing, but;

a) Given the turn out in the trailer boat division, (at Airlie) any argument that it's a economic or a lack of interest issue goes out the window.

b) we are all smart enough and you have the model of the OMR (maybe the ORC) if we decide to go play that way, then it's up to us to keep it fair until someone else comes up with a better mouse trap. Maybe we all put some thought into this and find that better mouse trap!

c) We won the Nats a few year back in 6Pac, a 21 year old boat, so sorry that one dose not stick, Vivace is also almost 20 but

d) You can't design a rule that compensates for evolution and from my POV nor should you. If someone puts the time and effort into a boat then it's near impossible to generate a factor that allows someone who dose nothing to compete equally. It's just a nonsense. And finally,

d) it really dose not matter what you do and long as it transparent. You have only won, if the guy you beat believes you have won!
 

Berndty

Member
98
12
qld aus
Hey JB
Your right, we all just need to go sailing and have a good week at Airlie and anywhere else we may end up.

My POV is, I don't mind anyone sailing in the divisions. SMS, CBH, ORC or what ever. As long as they comply with the appropriate rules.
The more people in the fleet the better. There was nothing better (other than sailing myself) was seeing 23 or so boats racing at DPSS ASBA Nationals June last year. I was a pleasure to organise and run on behalf of the ASBA.
But... I do have a problem with people manipulating the rules. And so do others. It was unfortunate in my time in the ASBA to find wrong SMS measurements on certificates, measurers not measuring boats the same way as the next measurer, people breaking the 3 test cert per year rule to find their way around the rating (this should be policed by YRSA, not us) there is measurers measuring "self interest boats". It has even been brought up that a measurer could hold a unfair advantage as they can access the SMS system and change measurements at the last hour before the 7 day or 14 day cut off in the ASBA constitution. The lack of transparency. A measurer within the fleet had access to all the SMS certs and measurements. No other owner had that until the ASBA started displaying the certs on their website. Even then, that only looks to be a few committee members so far. Information like that could get you a big advantage.
All these things and more have compounded to the scenario we have at this present time.
I don't really care about placings, podiums or so on. But it was nice to know at one stage that there was a chance in a fair system. Not a manipulate system.
Again looking forward to Airlie. Nothing better than sailing in the beautiful Whitsundays.
Cheers
Jamie
 

Tball

New member
2
1
Qld
I always thought the SMS rule was brought in to slow the arms race down. But all it has done is ensured that people design to a rule and not the “class intent” until Julian built the 89er name another boat in the last 5 yrs that’s been built to win over the line. I mean there isn’t even a trophy for line honours at the sports boat nationals. The Reo boats aren’t fast and anyone that thinks they are haven’t looked at line honours in any regatta but they do sail to a rule. The problem with this is exactly what is going on - no one want to race in a regatta where their chances of winning are low. Again the SMS rule I thought was to keep boats like the Thompson 7 relevant- they are a great boat just fallen off the tech ledge. Everyone can point fingers but at the end of the day the masses prove what is correct and what is bullshit.
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,170
1,562
Sydney mostly
Tball. the 89er has been built as a excuse for 5 fat old bastard (and one young buck) to get away and eat find food and drink even finer red.
In many cases I will be the youngest (fat old bastard) at 65, so I don't see us as threats. I expect to do well, but I have already done far better than I could of hoped for, so fine food, good company and really good red wine is my motivator.

That being said, I have heard everything you have said, though I hasten to add, I have no proof of transgressions. (I have not looked)

The issue is perception, I don't want to win an event only to have people doing the Spanish whispers behind my back. I get that enough in my real job! Just don't need that when I go out to have fun.

Just been playing the the CBH calculator, very public, did not take long to find, and maybe that is the way to go.

In my other job, we have "tamper proof plaques" which we stick on sails, there are enough reputable people with whom we can get measured, I don't think we have to go the IM route, and no you can't measure your own boat, that's paternally stupid, asking for innuendo's.

All that is very possible, I can get "stickers" with under a weeks notice, and I will travel with a 1 tonne load cell. Just find a tree and a chain block.

We just need to sit down and agree some basic parameters and then look at something like the CBH (only reason I am saying that is because its easy to get hold of, SMS could be equally simple, If they so chose) but you should be able to push the button on your own computer and get a result then and there. You then send it off to be ratified by say AS and published for all to see and also for all to police. Sure $45 cost, whippy-do given the cost of the sport. (this is my experience with the OMR over the last 15 years)

Just has to be transparent.

I will do some homework before Airlie, no point in re-inventing the wheel, just leverage off what has gone before and lets agree on some basic ideas so we can all go have fun without anyone sledging us behind closed doors, worst still in public! Aint that fun! (not)
 

Berndty

Member
98
12
qld aus
Tball. the 89er has been built as a excuse for 5 fat old bastard (and one young buck) to get away and eat find food and drink even finer red.
In many cases I will be the youngest (fat old bastard) at 65, so I don't see us as threats. I expect to do well, but I have already done far better than I could of hoped for, so fine food, good company and really good red wine is my motivator.

That being said, I have heard everything you have said, though I hasten to add, I have no proof of transgressions. (I have not looked)

The issue is perception, I don't want to win an event only to have people doing the Spanish whispers behind my back. I get that enough in my real job! Just don't need that when I go out to have fun.

Just been playing the the CBH calculator, very public, did not take long to find, and maybe that is the way to go.

In my other job, we have "tamper proof plaques" which we stick on sails, there are enough reputable people with whom we can get measured, I don't think we have to go the IM route, and no you can't measure your own boat, that's paternally stupid, asking for innuendo's.

All that is very possible, I can get "stickers" with under a weeks notice, and I will travel with a 1 tonne load cell. Just find a tree and a chain block.

We just need to sit down and agree some basic parameters and then look at something like the CBH (only reason I am saying that is because its easy to get hold of, SMS could be equally simple, If they so chose) but you should be able to push the button on your own computer and get a result then and there. You then send it off to be ratified by say AS and published for all to see and also for all to police. Sure $45 cost, whippy-do given the cost of the sport. (this is my experience with the OMR over the last 15 years)

Just has to be transparent.

I will do some homework before Airlie, no point in re-inventing the wheel, just leverage off what has gone before and lets agree on some basic ideas so we can all go have fun without anyone sledging us behind closed doors, worst still in public! Aint that fun! (not)
Hey JB
Just a note on your sticker idea.
The ASBA AGM of 2020 brought this up and it was voted on as it's a good idea and will help to keep people honest. The 2020 2021 ASBA committee set out with help and advice from YRSA (they even signed off of final design) and got 4 different sail stickers (largest Mai, Jib, Kite and C0) printed on a sticker back cloth like material that a permanent marker would not bleed on. 100 of each from memory.
This was the recommendation to the new committee when I and others left,
Recommendations from previous committee.
Now the Sail Stickers have been printed, there should be a grace period until stickers are mandatory. The sails must be measured by a YRSA approved measurer or a YRSA approved sail maker/measurer.
That can be found on the asba website.
Now at the 2022 AGM this was noted in minutes,
Stickers to confirm the measurement of sails was discussed. The ASBA does have some sail stickers but the format is not exactly right. Luke mentioned that sticker with a decent sized ASBA logo on the tack of sails would be good for promotion as it would appear in most of the best photos of boats. The committee will organise 120 stickers to be purchased.
I asked ASBA what was wrong with them as YRSA signed off on them? No reply. It had the ASBA logo on it. It was legible. It was actually bigger than the ones that Aus Sailing uses as I have one of theirs on a old mainsail. Is it just a ploy to hold off a tool that may stop some of the problems?
Cheers
Jamie
 
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JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,170
1,562
Sydney mostly
A 9er MCE plaque. Probably 3000 issued per year, very thin mylar, you try to remove them, they become void. Used on 49ers, 29ers, FX and a few other classes. The serial number is unique, so you just have to declare the number. jB

Screenshot_20220806-202851_WhatsApp.jpg
 

t-8

Anarchist
609
5
I don't have a dog in this fight, nor a rooster, but I'm happy to give some background to the origins of ASBA as I was one of the founding committee. Ironically JulianB is closer to the formation of ASBA than he may realise. The idea of ASBA was hatched in the car park of a Port Lincoln trailer park in 2007 after the trailable nationals which were held as part of the Lincoln Regatta. In another 6 degrees of separation I was sailing a beautiful little Thompson 8 at the time, most recently sailed under the name of 6PAC.

At the time, the handicap system in place was CBH (Class Based Handicap) that had been used for many years in the trailer sailer world, one that I was thrust into aboard my late fathers Sonata 7 in the very early 80's. Roll forward a couple of years and the trailable fleet was dominated by a new class of boat, no accomodation, asymmetrical spinnakers of huge proportion and a sales agent that could have perceived to have had an economic incentive to get a low CBH for his new class. That boat was the T7 which went on to win most of the "sport boat nationals" that at the time were hosted in Geelong as part of the then Skandia sailing week. Yes, everyone was bitching about the T7 having a handicap that rendered every other trailer sailer pretty much redundant if they wanted to be at the pointy end of the results. That coupled with a bloke called Chris Williams who sailed them farking fast!

Again, things in the sailing world go full circle when it comes to handicap racing. We had people turning up to regattas sailing under E780 class handicaps, even though the boats were full carbon. Hmm that didn't make sense. Then this "winged shitter" turned up that was puke green and sailed by some hack called Peter S. He could apparently sail a bit and the green boat was something called a 79'er. Hmmmm ... that didn't have a class so they just threw a dart at a board and gave it a "CBH". I still remember sailing to the famous Meggas beach BBQ and anchoring the T8 off the beach and wading in to drink beer and talk crap. The odd man out was the 79'er that couldn't drop anchor and had to tie up to another keelboat. Not an easy feat for this thing that had wings. What.... don't these new boats have to carry the basic kit like anchors etc I thought? Are they really that heavy? I thought the rules said you had to, or maybe I was just mistaken.

Around that time there was also some tension between the old blokes that ran NSW and VIC trailerable committees and while you could "apply" for a "CBH" there seemed to be zero science that went into the allocation of those numbers and seemed to be little co-operation on regattas than ran interstate.

I am not the greatest sailor, nor have I designed fantastic wold recognised classes or have anywhere near the sailing credentials of others in this thread but something didn't make sense to me, and two other blokes called Burgers and Parksy agreed. Surely if a new class of boat was turning up to sail, or an old class that was taking advantage of new construction techniques, surely it would make sense to adopt a system that weighed and measured stuff rather than just "run what ya brung". Another boat of the time that needs to be recognised is the fantastic Charlie. A full carbon boatspeed 23 sailed by the very well know and respected Julian Golding.... but sailing on CBH again didn't make much sense. There were heated discussions before every Geelong sportsboat nationals as to what CBH these new one off boats should sail under. Everyone had a vested interest.

So, given Burgers was lawyer and Parksy a pretty smart engineer, ASBA was formed and we looked to adopt a weigh and measure system. We approached the custodians of AMS (Australian Measurement System) which was run by some blokes in Melbourne. We ran some test certificates and they aligned pretty well with the established fleet while putting some quantitative data around the new one off carbon boats. There was an unintended consequence however. It seemed AMS didn't quite work for "light displacement" keelboats like the T7, T8, Elliots etc that could now use their new AMS cert for rating based aggregates at their local club. The T8 only had to leave the pen and it won on AMS against the rest of the keel boat fleet so after winning the AMS club championship in straight sets, the custodians of AMS would no longer issue certificates to "sportsboats" so SMS was born. SMS was just AMS under a different name that stopped the sports racing in AMS regattas. It also allowed SMS to be modified to suit without diluting the rest of the AMS fleet. Things that coped big penalties under AMS like square head mains and long prodders were accommodated in an attempt to stop people gaming the system and muting all that made sports boat great. The intentions were good however, like any "system", people soon found out what rates and what doesn't. Those that want to invest time and money will ALWAYS be able to produce a better mouse trap. Just look at IRC or TP52's

If you expect to turn up, drink copious amounts of XXXX, don't update sails, have an old boat and expect to win, SMS, or any other formula based system was never going to be the answer. PHS is perfect for that.

Luckily, like any constitution, the members can vote to change any element, including the adopted handicapping system or changing the committee members. People just need to want to care enough to take ownership and drive the future direction of the association rather than just chucking grenades from the sidelines. We had those blokes from day 1 so the old adage of some things don't change still seems to ring true.

I'm sure that anyone that's been on a committee would agree that you end up investing a lot more personal time than first intended but if it wasn't for people like this things just wouldn't happen or change would not occur. Want to drive change? Get involved. Maybe the right choice originally was to adopt a PHS system but we didn't. The current custodians of the association can choose to make any changes that they think will be better than the original decisions a few blokes in a tailer park made 15 years ago.

I'll be at Airle this year sailing an old fashioned big "sporty" in the performance division. After some years away from the sport I look forward to sitting on the dock, drinking rums and talking crap and going for a bit of a yacht.

Sail on.....
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,170
1,562
Sydney mostly
Hi T8, look forward to buying you a rum in Airlie.

I like you have no skin in the SMS.
But the tea-leaves suggest the SMS has lost the confidence of the masses, and there are numerous sets of Tea-Leaves suggesting that.

Not for a moment suggesting it deserves such condemnation, I simply don't know, and to be blunt, not interested.

If someone with the SMS formula was able to publish it, and there was a std set of factors that you apply for length, weight, wings, keel, even possible age and what ever else, and if then the massaging of these factors was not done in some dark room then I personally would have far more confidence and faith in that or any other process that has the same ethos!

Presently with 10 min searching I have got the formula of the CBH, I can enter, and I can see why the result is the result.
It's all about transparency!

I doubt that any system is perfect, in fact by definition that is impossible, but it's who gets to choose that's important.

I am happy to invest and have invested, based on CBH and LongPHRF, so if nothing happens, which is highly likely, then the demise of SMS & with it the ASBA, as they seem inextricably linked, really dose not effect my investment. I will enjoy and achieve my objectives in one of those "winged" boats.

The only thing that is more certain than death and taxes is evolution, otherwise we would still all be primeval single cell organisms swimming around in some saline brine.

So what ever it is that takes over or is re-borne also needs to be able to evolve, so probably before we do anything else, we need to decide how to manage that evolution.
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,170
1,562
Sydney mostly
I have a lot of people asking me to champion this.
They appear to have "mis-guided" faith in me!

And if we get it back on track it means a lot more fun!
 

Bill E Goat

Super Anarchist
4,580
382
Sydney
I remember when a Magic 25 ran a Symmetric kite and won, the ASBA said thats not in the spirit of a sportsboat so banned Symmetric kites. Then realised they made all the Elliott 7's ineligible so would lose 50% of their fleet. Suddenly symmetrics where OK if it was an Elliott 7.

Rating rules will always be exploited and never accurately handicap a wide variety of boats
 

t-8

Anarchist
609
5
As mentioned above.. someone just needs to put a motion forward to change the constitution and change the adopted handicapping system if faith is lost on SMS. That how associations work. The members get to shape the future and drive change. Band together, come up with the desired path and make it happen. AMS/SMS was originally chosen because it was externally managed and maintained and the trailable association was a shambles at the time and CBH was a lucky dip. No transparent formula and no national body. People that wanted to drive change and do something for the sport simply banded together and came up with an association that represented sports boats at the time. If the current custodians don’t think things work the way the world has changed should get together and change it. The original custodians did not attempt to predict the future. Shaping the association is todays members role.
If there is such a diversion these days you can choose to adopt a performance based system or any other system the current members decide.
 
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Turkey Slapper

Super Anarchist
5,750
69
Queensland
Sms can be changed, to favor any side of the fleet, it did so in 2009 with a 4-6% swing one way! The main reason cbh is the go to at the moment, (CBH in name alone has confused a lot in the meantime) is cause while it's another rating rule, and had a lot of problems and wrong numbers put out which has been concerning in such a short time, but from what most have said about the administrators of it, they are approachable, and wanting to fix the issues presented so far! And they admit there is a long way to go, from the blazer - RL switch, to a vx rating similar to an RL with a mast head kite! And there is the same problem for one sector of the fleet, boats built to an old box rule, the trailable yacht rule, having to rack up against boats not built to that same rule! Both sms and the new cbh are struggling here, but only cbh administrators seam to want to try and fix it! If the older style boats stay racing and fleets persist like the current Airlie fleet, a division split might prove successful as is did in the heyday of asba mooloolaba winter nats when i think over 20 boats were out on the track!

And yes Billy G, that was a disgrace how they handled the symmetric boat debacle, but like now, just another self interest group not thinking of the fleet as a whole!

T8 I think you should of given more credit to Eik for his leading the way well before the Tboats came out, with his E780 small cabin version being right up there for years before the T8 etc!

If so many leaving the association and not wanting to race within that fleet isnt enough of a shake up its not right, i dont know what is! Saying that the new president hasnt been approached is a cop out, the past administration exagerated this mess for him, and if he hasnt passed on the past members concerns, as a lot have contacted him, there is other issues still happening! He has a big job ahead of him!

Resized_20170427_124233.jpeg
 

t-8

Anarchist
609
5
The changes in 2009 were just a rebasing of the numbers IIRC to get them further away from AMS. There may have been a minor tweak to reduce the penalty for things like squarehead main’s etc but was mainly just a rebase from memory.
 

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