Is this the final AC for NZ?

[The_Alchemist]

I just do not see how NZ can continue to compete in the AC after taking the defense offshore.

More than any other country, New Zealand’s effort has been a major source of national pride and government support.  New Zealand has made a great deal of sacrifices and financial support to enable the team to compete over the years.  The objective of all this is to win the cup and hold the defense at home.  The whole country gets to celebrate and participate in the financial rewards.  It is tiny New Zealand flexing it’s power amongst all the countries in the world.  A significant accomplishment!

The taxpayers of NZ paid $250 million to host the last cup, but got cheated out of the tourism dollars and world acclaim because of Covid.  The government offered another $99 million for this cup.   All with the hopes of winning and hosting the cup.  No one could even imagine the possibility of not hosting the cup.

After all of this support and expectations, the team tells the people of NZ that they will not defend the cup at home.  All of the loyalty, support and trust has been thrown out the window in search of more money.  Money that is only needed because of the rules that the team themselves wrote.  
 

If NZ loses this next cup, who in NZ will ever trust or support the team for another run? The team can make as much promises as they want, but no one will ever trust them again.  Even if they win, support for a team that is just NZ by name will dwindle very quickly.  I doubt that the team will ever again gather the support they once had before deciding to take the cup offshore.  We all know that in order for New Zealand to be competitive in the cup, it truly has to be a national effort.

It is really sad how quickly the team has thrown away all of the glory they have gained over the last couple of decades.  The AC will survive, but unfortunately NZ will not be a part of it.

 

[Forourselves]

I just do not see how NZ can continue to compete in the AC after taking the defense offshore.

More than any other country, New Zealand’s effort has been a major source of national pride and government support.  New Zealand has made a great deal of sacrifices and financial support to enable the team to compete over the years.  The objective of all this is to win the cup and hold the defense at home.  The whole country gets to celebrate and participate in the financial rewards.  It is tiny New Zealand flexing it’s power amongst all the countries in the world.  A significant accomplishment!

The taxpayers of NZ paid $250 million to host the last cup, but got cheated out of the tourism dollars and world acclaim because of Covid.  The government offered another $99 million for this cup.   All with the hopes of winning and hosting the cup.  No one could even imagine the possibility of not hosting the cup.

After all of this support and expectations, the team tells the people of NZ that they will not defend the cup at home.  All of the loyalty, support and trust has been thrown out the window in search of more money.  Money that is only needed because of the rules that the team themselves wrote.  
 

If NZ loses this next cup, who in NZ will ever trust or support the team for another run? The team can make as much promises as they want, but no one will ever trust them again.  Even if they win, support for a team that is just NZ by name will dwindle very quickly.  I doubt that the team will ever again gather the support they once had before deciding to take the cup offshore.  We all know that in order for New Zealand to be competitive in the cup, it truly has to be a national effort.

It is really sad how quickly the team has thrown away all of the glory they have gained over the last couple of decades.  The AC will survive, but unfortunately NZ will not be a part of it.

Stop being such a crybaby.

NZ brought the cup back to NZ without a cent of taxpayer funding, then hosted the defence at home and won.

If they run an underfunded defence at home and lose because of it, that will definitely be the end of the Team and the AC for NZ.

At least they give themselves a chance of winning, they give NZ the chance to host again - post Covid 19.

Its funny how foreigners with an axe to grind like to pretend they care for Kiwi's when they don't.

Shut up and let it play out and quit being a fucking crybaby.

 

[Sailbydate]

Well, in recent history, it does appear to be harder to Defend than to Challenge, that's for sure.

On the other hand, with a better batting average, TNZ has been pretty good at Challenging...and winning.

Either way, I suggest it would be neither a lack of technical ability, nor sailing prowess which might prevent New Zealand from future participation. The 'stumbling block' would be funding...just as it is right now.

But you might want to ask the Australians, for confirmation.

 

[The_Alchemist]

Well, in recent history, it does appear to be harder to Defend than to Challenge, that's for sure.

On the other hand, with a better batting average, TNZ has been pretty good at Challenging...and winning.

Either way, I suggest it would be neither a lack of technical ability, nor sailing prowess which might prevent New Zealand from future participation. The 'stumbling block' would be funding...just as it is right now.

But you might want to ask the Australians, for confirmation.

That is part of the point.  By taking the defense offshore you lose your momentum and the home support.  My feeling is that it has dealt a death blow to future NZ AC efforts.

 

[Gissie]

I totally agree with the OP. Once the team steps on the plane, hopefully soon, that will be it. The team us up for sale, anyone with cash can buy the naming rights and the NZ part will become a piece of historic trivia. Again, the sooner the better.

I believe that defending in Auckland, with a decent PR job of how covid has meant an underfunded event, would have given a better chance of the team's survival. A loss at home, as the underdog, would have captivated Kiwis.

Instead they are just telling us money and (possibly) winning is far more important than any fan. That they are just a business after wealth and fortune, open to offers.

The cup and the team will never be part of NZ again once they leave. No new team will be trusted, ever.

 

[dogwatch]

By taking the defense offshore you lose your momentum and the home support.  

I'm not sure why you'd lose momentum when what you can test or sail when is in any case highly constrained in the protocol. As far as home support goes, Kiwi views evidently diverge on that. It's questionable how much it matters so long as other sponsors can be found. While Ineos and AM both tried beating the patriot drum in AC36, not many seemed to be listening, yet it seems they are back.

 

[enigmatically2]

 While Ineos and AM both tried beating the patriot drum in AC36, not many seemed to be listening, yet it seems they are back.

They haven't needed that groundswell of support so far because they have corporate/billionaire support. So you can either look at the ETNZ move offshore as betraying the country and people who have supported them so far and may well not again, or as them trying to tap into the sort of money sources that IUK and AM have so that they become more stable.

Time well tell. I'm still sceptical about Ireland or Spain finding enough money down the back of the sofa

 

[barfy]

 The AC will survive, but unfortunately NZ will not be a part of it.

Thanks for sharing alky.

 

[The_Alchemist]

They haven't needed that groundswell of support so far because they have corporate/billionaire support. So you can either look at the ETNZ move offshore as betraying the country and people who have supported them so far and may well not again, or as them trying to tap into the sort of money sources that IUK and AM have so that they become more stable.

Time well tell. I'm still sceptical about Ireland or Spain finding enough money down the back of the sofa

The betraying part is what I am thinking.  The NZ effort has relied on national support more than any other team.

It is almost comical how so many turned their backs on the team members that accepted offers to sail for the teams (not loyal) and now you have those same people support a whole team that has sold out and leaves.  Kind of hard to claim all of the New Zealand technology if they just become a "non-NZ" team. 

 

[The_Alchemist]

Thanks for sharing alky.

View attachment 482414

Is that your vision of the next ABNZ boat?

 

[Stingray~]

The betraying part is what I am thinking.  The NZ effort has relied on national support more than any other team.

It is almost comical how so many turned their backs on the team members that accepted offers to sail for the teams (not loyal) and now you have those same people support a whole team that has sold out and leaves.  Kind of hard to claim all of the New Zealand technology if they just become a "non-NZ" team. 

Some folks will support Team Cork or Team Malaga or whatever, no matter the official branding name  

 

[Gissie]

It is almost comical how so many turned their backs on the team members that accepted offers to sail for the teams (not loyal) and now you have those same people support a whole team that has sold out and leaves. 

Surprises me as well. I actually felt embarrassed at the treatment given to the 'traitors'.

They achieved great heights, disagreed with what was happening and moved on. So blackballed for being traitors. Now the whole team is doing the same thing, yet they are treated as saviours.

Apart from B&T. I wonder if, should they fail to sign up and support the move, they will be considered the traitors?

 

[Forourselves]

The betraying part is what I am thinking.  The NZ effort has relied on national support more than any other team.

It is almost comical how so many turned their backs on the team members that accepted offers to sail for the teams (not loyal) and now you have those same people support a whole team that has sold out and leaves.  Kind of hard to claim all of the New Zealand technology if they just become a "non-NZ" team. 

Difference being they competed against the team they left and took the cup away. Traitors.

 

[Gissie]

Difference being they competed against the team they left and took the cup away. Traitors.

But it is all just business according to you. Surely leaving one company and joining another is standard behaviour. Or is everyone that changes job a traitor?

 

[pusslicker]

But it is all just business according to you. Surely leaving one company and joining another is standard behaviour. Or is everyone that changes job a traitor?

This seems to be the one place where Kiwi moral flexibility runs into a wall.

 

[Gissie]

This seems to be the one place where Kiwi moral flexibility runs into a wall.

I wasn't in NZ when this happened, but the vilification of Coutts and the others was appalling.

That those who had the pitchforks out for those guys can now, so easily, come up with so many justifications for the team to just up and leave. For the 40's to be built in China by an Aussie company without one complaint.

Oh, it is just a business, they cry. Yet at the same time it is a national team. Twisting everything to justify the unjustifiable. They would find it hard to lie straight in bed.

 

[Forourselves]

But it is all just business according to you. Surely leaving one company and joining another is standard behaviour. Or is everyone that changes job a traitor?

If thats what they had said back then, then that would be fine. But for years, both Coutts and Butterworth publicly stated they "are proud Kiwi's and are proud of Team NZ and proud to represent NZ" only to switch teams and come back to NZ to take the cup away from NZ - something everyone knew was a foregone conclusion - was extremely disappointing, and deserved the reaction it got.

It would be like Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Maá Nonu, Keven Mealamu and Aaron Smith winning the RWC, pulling on a Wallabies jersey and leading a Wallaby team back to NZ to beat the All Blacks for the same World cup they'd just won. That wouldn't go down well either.

ETNZ are still the same team they were in 2017 and 2021. Many NZ teams represent NZ overseas, Team NZ are no different. It is business. Business allows sport to proceed. If not for business, no professional sport would be able to happen in the world anywhere. International sport is big money business. Even Olympians need money to be able to compete. Many amateur Olympians go professional to allow themselves the ability to compete at Olympic level. But they represent their country at the olympics.

Whether its rugby, football, cricket, sailing, they all have national teams, The AB's, the Black Caps, ETNZ, they're all businesses yet all National teams, the fact they are run by National bodies is irrelevant. They still require international sponsorship. The Deed is the governing body of the AC, and ETNZ requires international sponsorship. The AB's are NZ's national team, as are the Black Caps, the Silver Ferns, and ETNZ. That has never, and will never change. Anyone who says otherwise simply doesn't understand NZ sport, or has a personal agenda - which is also irrelevant.

 

[shebeen]

If thats what they had said back then, then that would be fine. But for years, both Coutts and Butterworth publicly stated they "are proud Kiwi's and are proud of Team NZ and proud to represent NZ" only to switch teams and come back to NZ to take the cup away from NZ - something everyone knew was a foregone conclusion - was extremely disappointing, and deserved the reaction it got.

It would be like Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Maá Nonu, Keven Mealamu and Aaron Smith winning the RWC, pulling on a Wallabies jersey and leading a Wallaby team back to NZ to beat the All Blacks for the same World cup they'd just won. That wouldn't go down well either.

ETNZ are still the same team they were in 2017 and 2021. Many NZ teams represent NZ overseas, Team NZ are no different. It is business. Business allows sport to proceed. If not for business, no professional sport would be able to happen in the world anywhere. International sport is big money business. Even Olympians need money to be able to compete. Many amateur Olympians go professional to allow themselves the ability to compete at Olympic level. But they represent their country at the olympics.

Whether its rugby, football, cricket, sailing, they all have national teams, The AB's, the Black Caps, ETNZ, they're all businesses yet all National teams, the fact they are run by National bodies is irrelevant. They still require international sponsorship. The Deed is the governing body of the AC, and ETNZ requires international sponsorship. The AB's are NZ's national team, as are the Black Caps, the Silver Ferns, and ETNZ. That has never, and will never change. Anyone who says otherwise simply doesn't understand NZ sport, or has a personal agenda - which is also irrelevant.

for a "national team", it seems like there's a lot of australians in key positions driving the ETNZ AC37 boat.

 

[Monkey]

for a "national team", it seems like there's a lot of australians in key positions driving the ETNZ AC37 boat.

To be fair though, the Australians won’t be driving the boat in New Zealand.