It’s not the world cup

bluelaser2

Member
445
82
CLE
The ed has a sweet tooth for displaying performative virtue.  This ain't the first time. 

Sure it's not ideal for the environment to run 100 RIBS for a five-day regatta.  Let's say those RIBs average 3 hours of motoring over the day, maybe average 70HP, maybe average half-throttle, so about 750 gallons for the event- and average two people aboard.  Coach and a proud parent or two.  For comparison's sake, that's about 15 minutes of fuel burn of a jet airliner carrying the same number of people.  

It would be very, very nice if all those RIBS had electric outboards charged by windmills, solar, and nuclear plants.  The world would be a better place.  But barely, in the scheme of things, considering how much other energy is spent to create a 100 boat regatta for five days- and how meaningful that effort is to the people planning and participating in it. 

Land transportation for people.  Hotels.  Served food.  Moving the boats themselves. Making the boats in the first place.  On and on.  

Denying people the enjoyment of being on the water and watching the action, and coaching the participants directly, in the name of saving a bit of additional warming is an absurdly disproportionate way to respond to the problem.  

How about waiving some fees for electric outboards?  How about lobbying for sales tax or income tax credits for buying electric outboards?   Credits for multi-boat trailers or carpooling?   

How about a hundred other steps to mitigate the hydrocarbon problem without drastically lowering the quality of the whole event, because at some measure, what's the point of even doing the thing ? 



 

 

Foredeck Shuffle

More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
You have do not seem to have enjoyed the pleasure that is a tsunami of parents that believe their child will be the next Olympic savoir and/or they are just as entitled as the hyena they launched that morning.

Having done that job I would relegate them all to 100 meters downwind of the starting box under the threat of their child receiving a DSQ for all races for the day should they "make a little mistake" and go anywhere near the course.  That rather than complex rules would slowly result in most of them ceasing to burn dinosaur juice all day at every event.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I would relegate them all of 100 meters downwind of the starting box under the threat of their child receiving a DSQ for all races for the day should they "make a little mistake" and go anywhere near the course.
Can we collectively start writing this into NOR/SI's please? Safety launches and media are positives, but mommy boats should not constitute an unfair advantage or hazard to navigation

 

Sisu3360

Anarchist
610
198
Seems to me that part of the problem is the increasing use of private coaches. If you're with your club team you've got a coach watching and evaluating your performance, and maybe keeping your lunch sandwich in a cooler, but s/he is responsible for 5-7 other boats too. That's a similar coaching ratio to most individual sports where you train as a team. When I coached I'd often bum a ride on another club's boat if bringing our rib was too difficult. Usually worked out fine.

 

sunseeker

Super Anarchist
3,585
549
Yes, it would be best to not burn so many dead dinosaurs, but it really is pissing in the ocean when you add everything up that goes into sailing. 
 

but a real logistical problem is just parking ribs and storing trailers. 
 

the solution to keeping ribs off the course is a drone feed that everyone can access. 
 

that said, I really do not like rules that preclude a parent from being on the water to watch their kids. I grew up in a club where parents went out to watch their kids, and their friends race. It was a great club activity and virtually no one was an asshole about anything. It was a different era though. For sure there needs to be restricted areas simply to keep wakes down, but it is impossible to enforce without a USCG permit. They aren’t exactly easy to get, so polite persuasion is necessary, and for the most part it works. 
 

it’s just there’s so little real estate for a regatta, doubling the number of boats makes it really hard on the host, and serves to limit the number of available venues. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

crashtack

Member
491
360
People will bemoan the slow death of the sport and how there's little to no fresh blood in one breath, and then get outraged about parents wanting to support their children racing in the next. Seriously, of all the things to get mad about -- opti regattas???

 

sunseeker

Super Anarchist
3,585
549
People will bemoan the slow death of the sport and how there's little to no fresh blood in one breath, and then get outraged about parents wanting to support their children racing in the next. Seriously, of all the things to get mad about -- opti regattas???
Have you been to an Opti regatta? It’s got little to do about sailing, and more about a show of force and control. If Opti’s are so fucking great and there’s so many Opti sailors, where are they after they age out? The mall? 

 

Liquid

NFLTG
4,624
807
Over there
Denying people the enjoyment of being on the water and watching the action
Heart pumping kids in a dinghy action?

So glad I was a kid in the 70s!

Summer day care in the form of a jr sailing program at a yacht club was fantastic!

A parent coming out to watch me sail/bob a Blue Jay or later a Laser on LIS just never happened...

Instructors in a few under powered wailers were all that were needed. 

 

Rambler

Super Anarchist
1,111
704
East Coast OZ
Put the Opti down and back slowly away.

Then turn and run.

They are highly toxic.

Then introduce your kids to sailing through something that's fun, socially and on the water, and more develomentally progressive.

 

shanghaisailor

Super Anarchist
3,119
1,268
Shanghai, China
People will bemoan the slow death of the sport and how there's little to no fresh blood in one breath, and then get outraged about parents wanting to support their children racing in the next. Seriously, of all the things to get mad about -- opti regattas???
Oppie Regattas are the thin end of the wedge. It wouldn't take enforcing 3.1b too often to get the message across.

Comments about how little hydrocarbons are involved or the use of electric outboards need to do a little research into how much outboards burn or just how long (actually short) the time an electric outboard of any decent thrust will actually last before that dreaded click, click, click of a dead battery.

I also thing some people are unaware of just the size of the RIB fleet ay many major championships. I provided the Editor with a photo but he didn't publish it.

For the avoidance of doubt I am attaching it here. And if you are an official (marshall, umpire, mark boat) who has parked their RIB properly and a bunch of coaches virtually abandon their RIB it can be a problem to extract your boat to go do your job.

And don't forget the public perception of seeing so many noisy, smelly motorboats at a 'green' sporting event. It doesn't do sailing any favours at all.

Costs to organisers if they are providing the RIBs? Well just look at the photos, I know they don't purchase them but I bet there is over $1m tied up in those boats.

Coach Boats at Sailing Word CHampionships 2018 - 02.jpg

 

Foredeck Shuffle

More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
^^^THIS^^^

I guess I am getting old
Some kids will have been mentally bent around their parents approval mechanisms to desire being watched, but most kids crave independence and want to do things themselves and without their parents interrupting and interjecting.

I will never put my kid into an Opti class.  He will get boats designed and built closer to his age than my grandfathers or great grandfathers.  It will be fun, faster, and easier to sail.  Opti's are from 1947 and bear no relevance to a modern rig, they are not even relevant to old sloops or cat boats.  Compare it to the Open Skiff (Open Bic) from 2006 that is better in every way.   I will not force him to ride my early 90's road or dirt bicycle, my old surfboards from the 90's (heck, even I have updated), and I don't keep old snow boards around so he'll get a modern version of that too.  I will not force him to sail on some outdated boat that bears no relevance to modern sailing.

 

shanghaisailor

Super Anarchist
3,119
1,268
Shanghai, China
Heart pumping kids in a dinghy action?

So glad I was a kid in the 70s!

Summer day care in the form of a jr sailing program at a yacht club was fantastic!

A parent coming out to watch me sail/bob a Blue Jay or later a Laser on LIS just never happened...

Instructors in a few under powered wailers were all that were needed. 
@ Liquid Dead right and they would call it progress. When I was a kid, and admittedly that wasn't yesterday we would have fun, coach each other, read some stuff in something like "This is Competitive Sailing by Imhoff & Pranger", try it, mess it up, try it again and so on. But it was fun and it is fun that attracts kids more than anything else - and not a coach in sight

 

shanghaisailor

Super Anarchist
3,119
1,268
Shanghai, China
Some kids will have been mentally bent around their parents approval mechanisms to desire being watched, but most kids crave independence and want to do things themselves and without their parents interrupting and interjecting.

I will never put my kid into an Opti class.  He will get boats designed and built closer to his age than my grandfathers or great grandfathers.  It will be fun, faster, and easier to sail.  Opti's are from 1947 and bear no relevance to a modern rig, they are not even relevant to old sloops or cat boats.  Compare it to the Open Skiff (Open Bic) from 2006 that is better in every way.   I will not force him to ride my early 90's road or dirt bicycle, my old surfboards from the 90's (heck, even I have updated), and I don't keep old snow boards around so he'll get a modern version of that too.  I will not force him to sail on some outdated boat that bears no relevance to modern sailing.
I agree. The Bic, or even the Topper. But I don't have a downer on the Oppie, it has introduce countless kids to our sport and has a place. Main thing is that kids need to be doing it for themselves not to please the parent in the chase boat.

When they catch the passion it is almost impossible to keep them off the water. I remember my daughter - Christmas Eve, Snowing, blowing, Scotland,. on a 29er. In the drink 10 times (they were pushing it). My buddy & I were in a RIB, not so much coaching but rescue cover. His son was on an RS300. WE eventually had to MAKE them go in because WE were getting too cold.

20 years on she is still sailing, more pickle dishes than enough but because she was allowed to catch the bug for herself, not for her parent (me).

Kids are kids for a short enough time as it is.

 

crashtack

Member
491
360
Some kids will have been mentally bent around their parents approval mechanisms to desire being watched, but most kids crave independence and want to do things themselves and without their parents interrupting and interjecting.

I will never put my kid into an Opti class.  He will get boats designed and built closer to his age than my grandfathers or great grandfathers.  It will be fun, faster, and easier to sail.  Opti's are from 1947 and bear no relevance to a modern rig, they are not even relevant to old sloops or cat boats.  Compare it to the Open Skiff (Open Bic) from 2006 that is better in every way.   I will not force him to ride my early 90's road or dirt bicycle, my old surfboards from the 90's (heck, even I have updated), and I don't keep old snow boards around so he'll get a modern version of that too.  I will not force him to sail on some outdated boat that bears no relevance to modern sailing.
What bearing does rigging type and design date have on sailing competition???????????? What a bizarre post

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Foredeck Shuffle

More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
What bearing does rigging type and design date have on sailing competition???????????? What a bizarre post
Old rigs are very poor at handling varying crew weights and wind conditions, especially puffs.  This makes the boat harder to sail.  A modern rig is designed to open up the weight range of the crew and depower as wind strength increases.  If you have only sailed alloy rigs with few controls, you are unlikely to have the experience to understand this.

 
Have you been to an Opti regatta? It’s got little to do about sailing, and more about a show of force and control. If Opti’s are so fucking great and there’s so many Opti sailors, where are they after they age out? The mall? 
You seriously think kids do not stay sailing after 15 is because the optis were designed too long ago??

Put the Opti down and back slowly away.

Then turn and run.

They are highly toxic.

Then introduce your kids to sailing through something that's fun, socially and on the water, and more develomentally progressive.
Clueless opti-hating adults on SA... Nothing new.

My 10yo will race on his second regional championship this weekend, he could not be more hyped, or love the sport more on any other boat I can think of.

Just because you old farts are shaped wrong for an opti doesn't mean kids are too. Oh, and he's pretty competitive for his age and weight with a 2003 boat, only new gear he has is his V1 sail, the ONLY thing he asked for on Christmas. A sail. No videogames, no bikes...

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sisu3360

Anarchist
610
198
Clueless opti-hating adults on SA... Nothing new.

My 10yo will race on his second regional championship this weekend, he could not be more hyped, or love the sport more on any other boat I can think of.

Just because you old farts are shaped wrong for an opti doesn't mean kids are too. Oh, and he's pretty competitive for his age and weight with a 2003 boat, only new gear he has is his V1 sail, the ONLY thing he asked for on Christmas. A sail. No videogames, no bikes...
Plenty of kids peak in Optis and burnout by the time they hit their late teens, though. Not sure if that's regrettable or not. Plenty of youth sports have low yield rates. How many youth soccer/football aces still play in their local rec leagues as adults (assuming they didn't go pro)?

 




Top