J/111 as a Multipurpose Boat?

Arcas

New member
Think you made a good choice. My first boat with my wife and 2 kids was a Dehler 29, which had the same interior arrangement as the j-boat. It is a great setup for young families - we sailed it for close to a decade - Chicago to the Bahamas, then up the East coast. Also a smaller boat will let you maintain it properly...

 

amFast

Member
64
7
Chicago
Think you made a good choice. My first boat with my wife and 2 kids was a Dehler 29, which had the same interior arrangement as the j-boat. It is a great setup for young families - we sailed it for close to a decade - Chicago to the Bahamas, then up the East coast. Also a smaller boat will let you maintain it properly...
Thanks for helping me feel good about my decision.  It sounds like you were able to do a lot with a similar boat.

The maintaining it properly bit was a big part of the equation.  There doesn't seem to be a lot out there on what it costs to maintain a boat.  When the question gets asked, the answer seems to invariably be "it depends," which while likely true, is not terribly helpful.  That said, from what I could piece together, it seemed like there is a meaningful difference even from a low-30s footer to a mid-30s footer.

In any case, I’m looking forward to spring.

 

Arcas

New member
Thanks for helping me feel good about my decision.  It sounds like you were able to do a lot with a similar boat.

The maintaining it properly bit was a big part of the equation.  There doesn't seem to be a lot out there on what it costs to maintain a boat.  When the question gets asked, the answer seems to invariably be "it depends," which while likely true, is not terribly helpful.  That said, from what I could piece together, it seemed like there is a meaningful difference even from a low-30s footer to a mid-30s footer.

In any case, I’m looking forward to spring.
The guidepost I initially used was 10 to 20% of the as-new price of the boat; for the 29, that was around $150k I figured (I bought it used). My number over the last 6 years cruising her was probably closer to 10% per year. That was doing a bunch of work myself and keeping everything in good but not flawless condition. Also we had done a major overhaul before cruising in the Bahamas. Chicago is easier on boats generally with the fresh water. Just try to get a slip, as Monroe moorings can be very rolly and beat the boat up a bit. Anyway, half the fun is dreaming about the things you'll do when the summer arrives. :)

 

GABA

Member
373
20
Anyone know how ORC treats the 111?  Good, bad or indifferent?

Asking because the Chicago Mac and Bayview (Port Huron) Mac races have just announced the switch to ORC

 

Blur

Super Anarchist
1,301
389
Sweden
Anyone know how ORC treats the 111?  Good, bad or indifferent?

Asking because the Chicago Mac and Bayview (Port Huron) Mac races have just announced the switch to ORC
Quite fairly. We've been winning tight races under ORC in Rolex Middle Sea Race as well as in Norway, that uses a single number derivate from ORC.

ORC tries to rate "smaller codes" and Jib Zeros fairly, so if you want to optimize for light winds there are some opportunities. Ramrod won the Annapolis Fall Regatta under ORC with OD sails + a Helix Code. 

As usual, depends on conditions.

yysw299080.jpg


 

Blur

Super Anarchist
1,301
389
Sweden
An additional perspective; we've been racing both in "turbo mode" with 155 sqm A2 + 50% code + J0 + 750 kg crew and in "IRC trim" with slightly less roach in the main, shorter sprit and OD kite - and ORC rate both those configs, as well as strict OD, quite fairly.

Happy to share numbers/learnings.

 
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steele

Super Anarchist
1,847
294
Land of the locks
amfast, congratulations on the 97. I have not sailed one but it looks to meet your needs well, both for short handling but also light cruising with the family. Does it have the wheel option or tiller? Either is good, just curious.

One possible hidden issue to look at it is the rudder bearings. I suspect they are JP3 with aluminum housings. Mine went bad about 7-8 years in. They are glassed into the hull and can not be assesed without dropping the rudder. If yours is a fresh water boat that is on the hard 1/2 of the year you are probably OK. If there is play or resistance in the helm have a low threshold to drop the rudder and take a look. Jefa makes a superior system.

 

amFast

Member
64
7
Chicago
The guidepost I initially used was 10 to 20% of the as-new price of the boat; for the 29, that was around $150k I figured (I bought it used). My number over the last 6 years cruising her was probably closer to 10% per year. That was doing a bunch of work myself and keeping everything in good but not flawless condition. Also we had done a major overhaul before cruising in the Bahamas. Chicago is easier on boats generally with the fresh water. Just try to get a slip, as Monroe moorings can be very rolly and beat the boat up a bit. Anyway, half the fun is dreaming about the things you'll do when the summer arrives. :)
Thanks Arcas, that's helpful.  I did a bottom up estimate and came to around $30K a year all in (e.g., dockage, winter storage, and maintenance).  Figuring the cost of a new J/97 would be $200K+, I'm somewhere south of 15% of new.  So, hopefully my experience will be similar to yours with a number closer to 10%.

I've applied for a slip in the Chicago harbor system.  We will see what is available, but based on the directional availability they provide, it seems unlikely that I'll end up in Monroe.

 

amFast

Member
64
7
Chicago
amfast, congratulations on the 97. I have not sailed one but it looks to meet your needs well, both for short handling but also light cruising with the family. Does it have the wheel option or tiller? Either is good, just curious.

One possible hidden issue to look at it is the rudder bearings. I suspect they are JP3 with aluminum housings. Mine went bad about 7-8 years in. They are glassed into the hull and can not be assesed without dropping the rudder. If yours is a fresh water boat that is on the hard 1/2 of the year you are probably OK. If there is play or resistance in the helm have a low threshold to drop the rudder and take a look. Jefa makes a superior system.
Thanks steele.  The one I bought is an older one (a non-e version), which I believe was only available as a tiller.  The cockpit seats in it stretch further aft than in the e-version, which I think would be in the way of a wheel.

Thanks for the heads up on the rudder bearings.  The survey didn't report any play in the rudder, but the rudder stuck gaiter needs to be replaced, so I'll have the bearings checked when the rudder gets dropped.

 

MLS73273

New member
Just go for it. I used to have a J/109, but I see myself taking the J/111 out for a solo sail after work 10X as often. It's such a rewarding (and somewhat challenging) boat.

Also, a J/88 would be an alternative if you don't want/need standing headroom and are ok with the limited space below. But for long weekends with family or friends on board, the J/111 is definitely a better alternative. 
I am also considering a J111.  I'd like to be able to race competitvely and do social sailing.  Is there an easy way to switch back and forth from furling?

 

glexpress

Super Anarchist
3,087
152
Hill Valley
I am also considering a J111.  I'd like to be able to race competitvely and do social sailing.  Is there an easy way to switch back and forth from furling?
There is no way to easily switch, the mast needs to come off the boat for the change.  

The headsails on a J111 aren't that imposing to hoist for a cruise anyway...

 

Blur

Super Anarchist
1,301
389
Sweden
I am also considering a J111.  I'd like to be able to race competitvely and do social sailing.  Is there an easy way to switch back and forth from furling?
The typical setup is to have the furler on, and have a cruising sail with vertical or furling battens. Racing sails can either be tacked on top of the furler but hoisted without the swivel (can easily be lowered) or at the bow going "around" the furler. Good enough för most club racing (we raced #69 Blur like this before going to a Harken Carbofoil and selling the furling headstay. 

Now we just use the #3.5 headsail for transports/cruising. Works very well, even solo.

 

glexpress

Super Anarchist
3,087
152
Hill Valley
The typical setup is to have the furler on, and have a cruising sail with vertical or furling battens. Racing sails can either be tacked on top of the furler but hoisted without the swivel (can easily be lowered) or at the bow going "around" the furler. Good enough för most club racing (we raced #69 Blur like this before going to a Harken Carbofoil and selling the furling headstay. 

Now we just use the #3.5 headsail for transports/cruising. Works very well, even solo.
I got the impression that MLS73273 was asking about changing out the whole head stay.

Your suggestion makes more sense!

 

Blur

Super Anarchist
1,301
389
Sweden
I got the impression that MLS73273 was asking about changing out the whole head stay.

Your suggestion makes more sense!
It's always a compromise...

If you want to combine a 100% serious race campaign with cruising, there's going to be more conversion. As changing head stays. 

With Blur, we take the Carbo Foil off for serious solo or doublehanded racing, when we run a reefable shorthanded jib with soft hanks. Works great for cruising as well. And then put the Carbo Foil back for fully-crewed offshore racing. But we did pretty well for the first 3 years with the Facnor furler on the boat, so my suggestion is to start out with that config before escalating beyond control.

 

Goblew

Member
327
7
Detroit Area
Well, as a J/111 owner and obviously biased - what I love about the boat:

  • Sailing upwind with fingertip control of the helm
  • Jumping on a plane when wind gets to 18+kts
  • Feeling the immediate acceleration of the boat in a puff
  • The look of the boat at the dock and under sail - they look cool
  • The feel of the boat in a breeze - it's stable and under control
  • The quality of the competition - good competition makes me a better sailor even if I'm not stacking shelves with silver
  • Ability to sail short/singlehanded or with less experienced crew.  I find it's relatively easy to train a new person to do the basics

I could go on.

 

Roleur

Super Anarchist
3,206
1,034
Orcas Island
How much is a new J/111?  Doesn’t seem to be many used ones up for sale 
I'm not sure they will build one unless they get several orders.  Ballpark would be $350k for everything.  Makes the used ones seem like a bargain, which is part of why they are moving fast on the market.  When we bought ours in the March there were 10 for sale in the US/Canada.  We found one that looked great and it sold within 2 weeks of listing.  Ended up getting basically the same setup and price from the same area, but our boat never even made it to Yachtworld.  I made an offer before it was listed.  

What's really interesting is what is happening in the PNW.  1 year ago there were 2.  Now there are 5 and I know two buyers in the Puget Sound area that are actively looking for 111's.   

 

starsinker

Member
165
14
Vancouver
Where is a good place to search for listings other than YachtWorld?  I checked the association website but there weren’t any listings there. There is one in California. 

 

George Dewey

Super Anarchist
2,291
200
Charleston, SC
There is no way to easily switch, the mast needs to come off the boat for the change.  
Is this true? I'm planning (on my J/111) to ditch the Facnor furler but if it means I have to yank that stick that will seriously impact my plans.  Couldn't I just use a few halyards to hold the mast up, and go up to make the change up top? 

 
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