J/111 Goes Sailing...
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are you sure the instruments were properly calibrated? 7.5-7.8 kts upwind is pretty fast for a 36 footer of that type of boat
that makes it a bit quicker than an A40 which it will rate close to on IRC.......so great news if true!! it might have some legs in IRC as well.
DC/Chicago
Anarchist
Could not be sure on the calibration ,that is what I saw when I turned to look at the instruments.Calibrated or not it would be known how fast it is when next to other boats.
Black Dog
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They raced in the Around Jametown race yesterday. The rating was 42. Looks like Jeff J. was driving. Sorry no pics, did not have my camera.
The wind was around 20 most of the day.
http://www.conanicutyachtclub.org/files/CYC%20ATI%202010%20Results.pdf
Jambalaya
Super Anarchist
Mid / high 7's upwind are the targets for a Mumm 30 I recall - so don't seem excessive. DC thanks for the notes very interesting.
Instruments over-reading on a demo boat - who'd have thought it !
Instruments over-reading on a demo boat - who'd have thought it !
I think you mean mid/high 6's for a mumm 30, see link below. an extra knot over and above the Mumm is alot methinks.
http://www.blur.se/polar/mumm30_farr_performance_prediction.pdf
Furkolkjaaf
Member
Jambalaya
Super Anarchist
We did mid 6's in the J92 and even the SB3 is 6.4, J105 would be 6.8 in those conditions, it is from memory but I do recall the mumm being in the 7's upwind (edit: could be instrument calibration but also note there has been comment on SA about how much faster Farr 40s are than the VPP predictions due to sail refinement and the fact that VPP is just a model)
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Not even for Farr 40! http://wcsailing.blogspot.com/2008_10_01_archive.html
Swan 45 is mid&high 7's:
http://www.sailmaker.org/files/Technical_Data/SPECS.%20AND%20TUNING%20GUIDES/Swan/Swan%2045/North%20Swan45TG2005.pdf?u=
Do you think J/111 or Mumm 30 is as fast upwind?
Also 6.8 sounds a bit high for J/105. I would think 6.4-6.6 would be more normal for a boat like that and these seem to agree:
http://www.j105fleet3.org/files/knowledge/Quantum%20Targets.pdf
http://www.j105fleet3.org/files/knowledge/Quantum%20Targets.pdf
Alec's Left Nut
Member
Interesting numbers: the 111 rates higher than a 40.7 which is usually about 1.070 in IRC (or thereabouts). The 111's elapsed time of 2:29:04 was not far off the J44's (6mins) nor the IMX 45's (3mins), and they're both heavy boats which do well in a blow so this thing is fast, non? It corrected out 27th overall and better than all the big boats including a Swan 42. I'll assume the 111 was well sailed given who some said were aboard. But that's heavy air, I'd hate to go against a 40.7 in a whispy 5 knots with a crappy tidal chop against me, when the 40.7 has a 155% genny up...
The most interesting thing is the 111 vs Summit 35 handicaps - if only that boat was out there. I also think 7.8kts is fast, the Farr/Corel 45 I sail on with meticulously maintained instruments goes upwind at 7.8 in 12/13 kts and up. That's pretty much out top speed, only footing do we get up to 8kts. The fastest J we race against is a 133 and the F45 generally pisses all over those, they're not even in the same start. Interesting claims. I think the instruments were over-reading...
I still love it that the J35, a boat I have lots of positive experiences on, rates faster than a 36.7, a nice cruiser but 10+ years newer. I also love that a B32 and a Swan 44 on the same rating can sail within 20 seconds of each other over 2.5 hours. How cool is that? Handicap is never great sailing but that's a positive story.
MrDoug
Member
Are those classes backwards?
On LE, the PHRF-A boats are the fast ones.
On LE, the PHRF-A boats are the fast ones.
I'm sure it trucks along quite well, but someone needs to calibrate the Nexus system
Below are some rough targets in +20 knots, tuned boat, full crew hiking hard...
J/109 = 6.85
FF36 Club = 7.00
Mumm 36 = 7.20
Corby 36 = 7.40
IMX-40 = 7.40
Pacer 376 = 7.50
King 40 = 7.60
First 40 = 7.60
CS42 = 7.70
I would be happy to see 7.3-7.4, since we'll beat most of those boats downwind anyways...
Looking at the results from the race, comparing with the J/109 (1.032) and the CS42 (1.180), my guess for a "not so good" IRC TCC of ~1.100 seems pretty close :lol:
Results from the Bi-state with a twist and the Michgan City Chicago Race.
To start with the J/111 has a preliminary PHRF gift of 48 (J/120's have a rating of 48, J/109s are att 66) she was racing in section II PHRF The scratch boat was Eagle's Wings with a rating of 21.
On Sunday, on the race over, In a 31 mile race, she won boat for boat. It looked like Rich Sterns, Perry Lewis and two Johnstones were on board plus six others
On Monday, she lost to an old J/120 by 90 seconds (Boat for boat) Looked like the same crew from Sunday. Defenitely Rich and Perry were on board. The J/120 Elusive, Crewed by a bunch of white haired old guys and three cute women, average age of the boat somewhere around 60, were able to catch and pass the J/111 and hold the lead for the win...
Rumor has it that it was Tom Edmon on the helm (an old J/30 and J/105 sailor) who wavied his sandwich from the helm on passing Rich and Perry.
To start with the J/111 has a preliminary PHRF gift of 48 (J/120's have a rating of 48, J/109s are att 66) she was racing in section II PHRF The scratch boat was Eagle's Wings with a rating of 21.
On Sunday, on the race over, In a 31 mile race, she won boat for boat. It looked like Rich Sterns, Perry Lewis and two Johnstones were on board plus six others
On Monday, she lost to an old J/120 by 90 seconds (Boat for boat) Looked like the same crew from Sunday. Defenitely Rich and Perry were on board. The J/120 Elusive, Crewed by a bunch of white haired old guys and three cute women, average age of the boat somewhere around 60, were able to catch and pass the J/111 and hold the lead for the win...
Rumor has it that it was Tom Edmon on the helm (an old J/30 and J/105 sailor) who wavied his sandwich from the helm on passing Rich and Perry.
Black Dog
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One thing to remember. The race had no downwind leg.
Started upwind, turned the corner at the bottom then up the backside on tight reach, wind backed, turned to a tight broad reach. Turned then at the top of the island and it was a 1 legged beat to the finish.
I am not sure if the 111 ever put up a chute the whole day.
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I was on the J-111 for the Bi-state with a twist weekend and just wanted to set some facts straight. Rich Stearns, Perry Lewis and Stu Johnstone were indeed on the boat for the race over and Stu and Rich on the ride back. Perry was not with us for the return race. All I can say that boat is FAST and hugely fun to sail. The sail over was beam reach, we consistently saw 8-9 kts and a few times made it over 10. We calibrated with our GPS and the speedo was actually slower than what the GPS was showing us. The return leg was a very tight jib reach up until about two miles from the finish. Our speeds coming back were consistently around 8+ kts also hitting 10 a few times. Yes, we were beaten by a J/120 (happy it was another J/boat). Monday's weather was perfect for the 120 maybe not the best point of sail for the 111.
Black Dog
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Jambalaya
Super Anarchist
Seems like I was hallucinating on those upwind speeds, must be the tropical Singapore air ! The Mumm's do point better and are faster than the 105 which in 20 knots we'd look to do about 6.7-6.8 (I did 2 spi ouest regattas on the 105 against them sharing the same start)
I would think a 120 would pass a 111 on a fetch - it's about waterline length - on a W/L you'd think the 111 would probably take the 120 on balance. I wouldn't read too much into this "data point"
I would think a 120 would pass a 111 on a fetch - it's about waterline length - on a W/L you'd think the 111 would probably take the 120 on balance. I wouldn't read too much into this "data point"
First race wind ranged from 5-12 kts, more at the beginning and faded at the end. On the return race we saw between 11-17 kts, mostly in the 12-13 kt range.
ragbag
Anarchist
Agreed. It's about the type of conditions and race course. The J/90's rating (also 48) was biased to its planing performance in reaching conditions. If we didn't get that, we'd get clobbered by a lot of boats with water line on us. If we did get it, we'd do a horizon job on them over the line, but still tight on rating. Ratings are based on hybrid performance.
mustang__1
Super Anarchist
well hell, at least they're based on something... i thought it was just a best guess based on SA/D....
