J/111 Goes Sailing...

DC/Chicago

Anarchist
599
0
Chicago
I was out sailing on the new J-111.Fast is fun,and this boat is fasT.We were out with a sailmaker ,Stu Johnston and Rich Stearns the J boat dealer from Midwest, so we had good people on board ,the driver was a long time shipmate of mine that owns a J-105 and has some interet in the J-111.It has been blowing from the west ,North west in Chicago for the last two days and when we went out the breze was between 20 and I guess the highest I saw was 28(I was told that it was the most breese that a J-111 was in so far) .We were going down wind and the boat planes.We saw 15.7 speed in 22 knots wind.I am sure we could've got more out of it with some waves.When the boat offloads it just takes off.Up wind, the sailmaker was still tuning the rig, so we could not get it to her full potential I am sure, but I can tell you that the boat is happy at 7.5-7.8 in that breese and and the boat felt stable.

That is my $0.02 from Chicago

Fast is fun and the J-111 is fast

Dorin
Hi DC,

Thanks for your impressions of the J-111 from the Windy City. Fantastic!

We are on the list for a J-111 in San Franciso Bay (eta next spring). As 20-28 knots of breeze is standard fare here in the summer, I am hoping you could provide further thoughts and impressoins on how the 111 went to weather in those wind conditions.

I do have some experience on a J-105 so that is a good reference point. Your comments on stiffness, heeling angle, sail trim and overall feel compared to your 105 in similar conditions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Jim
Jim, I sent you a private message

Dorin

 

hart

Member
366
0
I was out sailing on the new J-111.Fast is fun,and this boat is fasT.We were out with a sailmaker ,Stu Johnston and Rich Stearns the J boat dealer from Midwest, so we had good people on board ,the driver was a long time shipmate of mine that owns a J-105 and has some interet in the J-111.It has been blowing from the west ,North west in Chicago for the last two days and when we went out the breze was between 20 and I guess the highest I saw was 28(I was told that it was the most breese that a J-111 was in so far) .We were going down wind and the boat planes.We saw 15.7 speed in 22 knots wind.I am sure we could've got more out of it with some waves.When the boat offloads it just takes off.Up wind, the sailmaker was still tuning the rig, so we could not get it to her full potential I am sure, but I can tell you that the boat is happy at 7.5-7.8 in that breese and and the boat felt stable.

That is my $0.02 from Chicago

Fast is fun and the J-111 is fast

Dorin
are you sure the instruments were properly calibrated? 7.5-7.8 kts upwind is pretty fast for a 36 footer of that type of boat

that makes it a bit quicker than an A40 which it will rate close to on IRC.......so great news if true!! it might have some legs in IRC as well.

 

DC/Chicago

Anarchist
599
0
Chicago
I was out sailing on the new J-111.Fast is fun,and this boat is fasT.We were out with a sailmaker ,Stu Johnston and Rich Stearns the J boat dealer from Midwest, so we had good people on board ,the driver was a long time shipmate of mine that owns a J-105 and has some interet in the J-111.It has been blowing from the west ,North west in Chicago for the last two days and when we went out the breze was between 20 and I guess the highest I saw was 28(I was told that it was the most breese that a J-111 was in so far) .We were going down wind and the boat planes.We saw 15.7 speed in 22 knots wind.I am sure we could've got more out of it with some waves.When the boat offloads it just takes off.Up wind, the sailmaker was still tuning the rig, so we could not get it to her full potential I am sure, but I can tell you that the boat is happy at 7.5-7.8 in that breese and and the boat felt stable.

That is my $0.02 from Chicago

Fast is fun and the J-111 is fast

Dorin
are you sure the instruments were properly calibrated? 7.5-7.8 kts upwind is pretty fast for a 36 footer of that type of boat

that makes it a bit quicker than an A40 which it will rate close to on IRC.......so great news if true!! it might have some legs in IRC as well.
Could not be sure on the calibration ,that is what I saw when I turned to look at the instruments.Calibrated or not it would be known how fast it is when next to other boats.

 

Black Dog

Super Anarchist
1,196
6
I've been told by a reliable source it will be 36.
Seriously? It will be just six seconds a mile slower than the J/122?? A couple feet shorter but a lot lighter with a better SA/DSPL ration I suppose. Hmmmm, very interesting...

They raced in the Around Jametown race yesterday. The rating was 42. Looks like Jeff J. was driving. Sorry no pics, did not have my camera.

The wind was around 20 most of the day.

http://www.conanicutyachtclub.org/files/CYC%20ATI%202010%20Results.pdf

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,475
33
Hamble / Paris
Mid / high 7's upwind are the targets for a Mumm 30 I recall - so don't seem excessive. DC thanks for the notes very interesting.

Instruments over-reading on a demo boat - who'd have thought it !

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,475
33
Hamble / Paris
We did mid 6's in the J92 and even the SB3 is 6.4, J105 would be 6.8 in those conditions, it is from memory but I do recall the mumm being in the 7's upwind (edit: could be instrument calibration but also note there has been comment on SA about how much faster Farr 40s are than the VPP predictions due to sail refinement and the fact that VPP is just a model)

 
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Joakim

Super Anarchist
1,401
77
Finland
Mid / high 7's upwind are the targets for a Mumm 30 I recall - so don't seem excessive.
Not even for Farr 40! http://wcsailing.blogspot.com/2008_10_01_archive.html

Swan 45 is mid&high 7's:

http://www.sailmaker.org/files/Technical_Data/SPECS.%20AND%20TUNING%20GUIDES/Swan/Swan%2045/North%20Swan45TG2005.pdf?u=

Do you think J/111 or Mumm 30 is as fast upwind?

Also 6.8 sounds a bit high for J/105. I would think 6.4-6.6 would be more normal for a boat like that and these seem to agree:

http://www.j105fleet3.org/files/knowledge/Quantum%20Targets.pdf

http://www.j105fleet3.org/files/knowledge/Quantum%20Targets.pdf

 
I've been told by a reliable source it will be 36.
Seriously? It will be just six seconds a mile slower than the J/122?? A couple feet shorter but a lot lighter with a better SA/DSPL ration I suppose. Hmmmm, very interesting...

They raced in the Around Jametown race yesterday. The rating was 42. Looks like Jeff J. was driving. Sorry no pics, did not have my camera.

The wind was around 20 most of the day.

http://www.conanicutyachtclub.org/files/CYC%20ATI%202010%20Results.pdf
Interesting numbers: the 111 rates higher than a 40.7 which is usually about 1.070 in IRC (or thereabouts). The 111's elapsed time of 2:29:04 was not far off the J44's (6mins) nor the IMX 45's (3mins), and they're both heavy boats which do well in a blow so this thing is fast, non? It corrected out 27th overall and better than all the big boats including a Swan 42. I'll assume the 111 was well sailed given who some said were aboard. But that's heavy air, I'd hate to go against a 40.7 in a whispy 5 knots with a crappy tidal chop against me, when the 40.7 has a 155% genny up...

The most interesting thing is the 111 vs Summit 35 handicaps - if only that boat was out there. I also think 7.8kts is fast, the Farr/Corel 45 I sail on with meticulously maintained instruments goes upwind at 7.8 in 12/13 kts and up. That's pretty much out top speed, only footing do we get up to 8kts. The fastest J we race against is a 133 and the F45 generally pisses all over those, they're not even in the same start. Interesting claims. I think the instruments were over-reading...

I still love it that the J35, a boat I have lots of positive experiences on, rates faster than a 36.7, a nice cruiser but 10+ years newer. I also love that a B32 and a Swan 44 on the same rating can sail within 20 seconds of each other over 2.5 hours. How cool is that? Handicap is never great sailing but that's a positive story.

 

Blur

Super Anarchist
1,214
209
Sweden
the boat is happy at 7.5-7.8 in that breese and and the boat felt stable.
I'm sure it trucks along quite well, but someone needs to calibrate the Nexus system :)

Below are some rough targets in +20 knots, tuned boat, full crew hiking hard...

J/109 = 6.85

FF36 Club = 7.00

Mumm 36 = 7.20

Corby 36 = 7.40

IMX-40 = 7.40

Pacer 376 = 7.50

King 40 = 7.60

First 40 = 7.60

CS42 = 7.70

I would be happy to see 7.3-7.4, since we'll beat most of those boats downwind anyways...

Looking at the results from the race, comparing with the J/109 (1.032) and the CS42 (1.180), my guess for a "not so good" IRC TCC of ~1.100 seems pretty close :lol:

 

ftbinc

Member
201
0
Chciago
Results from the Bi-state with a twist and the Michgan City Chicago Race.

To start with the J/111 has a preliminary PHRF gift of 48 (J/120's have a rating of 48, J/109s are att 66) she was racing in section II PHRF The scratch boat was Eagle's Wings with a rating of 21.

On Sunday, on the race over, In a 31 mile race, she won boat for boat. It looked like Rich Sterns, Perry Lewis and two Johnstones were on board plus six others

On Monday, she lost to an old J/120 by 90 seconds (Boat for boat) Looked like the same crew from Sunday. Defenitely Rich and Perry were on board. The J/120 Elusive, Crewed by a bunch of white haired old guys and three cute women, average age of the boat somewhere around 60, were able to catch and pass the J/111 and hold the lead for the win...

Rumor has it that it was Tom Edmon on the helm (an old J/30 and J/105 sailor) who wavied his sandwich from the helm on passing Rich and Perry.

 

Black Dog

Super Anarchist
1,196
6
I've been told by a reliable source it will be 36.
Seriously? It will be just six seconds a mile slower than the J/122?? A couple feet shorter but a lot lighter with a better SA/DSPL ration I suppose. Hmmmm, very interesting...

They raced in the Around Jametown race yesterday. The rating was 42. Looks like Jeff J. was driving. Sorry no pics, did not have my camera.

The wind was around 20 most of the day.

http://www.conanicut...0%20Results.pdf
Interesting numbers: the 111 rates higher than a 40.7 which is usually about 1.070 in IRC (or thereabouts). The 111's elapsed time of 2:29:04 was not far off the J44's (6mins) nor the IMX 45's (3mins), and they're both heavy boats which do well in a blow so this thing is fast, non? It corrected out 27th overall and better than all the big boats including a Swan 42. I'll assume the 111 was well sailed given who some said were aboard. But that's heavy air, I'd hate to go against a 40.7 in a whispy 5 knots with a crappy tidal chop against me, when the 40.7 has a 155% genny up...

The most interesting thing is the 111 vs Summit 35 handicaps - if only that boat was out there. I also think 7.8kts is fast, the Farr/Corel 45 I sail on with meticulously maintained instruments goes upwind at 7.8 in 12/13 kts and up. That's pretty much out top speed, only footing do we get up to 8kts. The fastest J we race against is a 133 and the F45 generally pisses all over those, they're not even in the same start. Interesting claims. I think the instruments were over-reading...

I still love it that the J35, a boat I have lots of positive experiences on, rates faster than a 36.7, a nice cruiser but 10+ years newer. I also love that a B32 and a Swan 44 on the same rating can sail within 20 seconds of each other over 2.5 hours. How cool is that? Handicap is never great sailing but that's a positive story.

One thing to remember. The race had no downwind leg.

Started upwind, turned the corner at the bottom then up the backside on tight reach, wind backed, turned to a tight broad reach. Turned then at the top of the island and it was a 1 legged beat to the finish.

I am not sure if the 111 ever put up a chute the whole day.

 
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Loridew

New member
4
0
Chicago
I was on the J-111 for the Bi-state with a twist weekend and just wanted to set some facts straight. Rich Stearns, Perry Lewis and Stu Johnstone were indeed on the boat for the race over and Stu and Rich on the ride back. Perry was not with us for the return race. All I can say that boat is FAST and hugely fun to sail. The sail over was beam reach, we consistently saw 8-9 kts and a few times made it over 10. We calibrated with our GPS and the speedo was actually slower than what the GPS was showing us. The return leg was a very tight jib reach up until about two miles from the finish. Our speeds coming back were consistently around 8+ kts also hitting 10 a few times. Yes, we were beaten by a J/120 (happy it was another J/boat). Monday's weather was perfect for the 120 maybe not the best point of sail for the 111.

 

Black Dog

Super Anarchist
1,196
6
I was on the J-111 for the Bi-state with a twist weekend and just wanted to set some facts straight. Rich Stearns, Perry Lewis and Stu Johnstone were indeed on the boat for the race over and Stu and Rich on the ride back. Perry was not with us for the return race. All I can say that boat is FAST and hugely fun to sail. The sail over was beam reach, we consistently saw 8-9 kts and a few times made it over 10. We calibrated with our GPS and the speedo was actually slower than what the GPS was showing us. The return leg was a very tight jib reach up until about two miles from the finish. Our speeds coming back were consistently around 8+ kts also hitting 10 a few times. Yes, we were beaten by a J/120 (happy it was another J/boat). Monday's weather was perfect for the 120 maybe not the best point of sail for the 111.

What were the wind speeds?

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,475
33
Hamble / Paris
Seems like I was hallucinating on those upwind speeds, must be the tropical Singapore air ! The Mumm's do point better and are faster than the 105 which in 20 knots we'd look to do about 6.7-6.8 (I did 2 spi ouest regattas on the 105 against them sharing the same start)

I would think a 120 would pass a 111 on a fetch - it's about waterline length - on a W/L you'd think the 111 would probably take the 120 on balance. I wouldn't read too much into this "data point"

 

Loridew

New member
4
0
Chicago
I was on the J-111 for the Bi-state with a twist weekend and just wanted to set some facts straight. Rich Stearns, Perry Lewis and Stu Johnstone were indeed on the boat for the race over and Stu and Rich on the ride back. Perry was not with us for the return race. All I can say that boat is FAST and hugely fun to sail. The sail over was beam reach, we consistently saw 8-9 kts and a few times made it over 10. We calibrated with our GPS and the speedo was actually slower than what the GPS was showing us. The return leg was a very tight jib reach up until about two miles from the finish. Our speeds coming back were consistently around 8+ kts also hitting 10 a few times. Yes, we were beaten by a J/120 (happy it was another J/boat). Monday's weather was perfect for the 120 maybe not the best point of sail for the 111.

What were the wind speeds?

First race wind ranged from 5-12 kts, more at the beginning and faded at the end. On the return race we saw between 11-17 kts, mostly in the 12-13 kt range.

 

ragbag

Anarchist
I wouldn't read too much into this "data point"
Agreed. It's about the type of conditions and race course. The J/90's rating (also 48) was biased to its planing performance in reaching conditions. If we didn't get that, we'd get clobbered by a lot of boats with water line on us. If we did get it, we'd do a horizon job on them over the line, but still tight on rating. Ratings are based on hybrid performance.

 
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