J/111 Goes Sailing...

[InNeedOfSomeRestraint]

Boat looks great, looks like a winner to me. Besides the "J Hater Nation" that is sailing anarchy, I think the number of hulls already ordered is a true testament to J Boat's ability to make a great boat, don't think the new sydney 37 will be able to match it's numbers in sales. That being said i am a little disapointed that the finished product wasn't the radical change in direction for J Boats that many people were expecting. I thought they would step out of their comfort zone and actually produce a hardcore, lightweight, T-bulb keel racer but it ended up being another 36ft cruiser/racer in their lineup. The 111 is too similar to the 109 and they will cannibalize each other's sales.

This is a very valid point and you're onto something. J/ tried too hard to get the crossover of cruising and racing when they should really decide on one and do it well. Case in point: The J/35 and J/35c. One was purely raceable and the other was purely cruisable.

I honestly find myself hoping that their insisting that it should be a rocket are true but at the same time they're trying much too hard to hook people on the "versatility" of the boat. In the end, I doubt that it will be any more enjoyable to spend time on than a J/105 or a Farr 30 and you will be confronted with the reality that while you COULD weekend on the boat ... would you really want to?

 

[beachball]

And it seems that many people on SA wants (and argues for) the all out planing carbon 36' racer? But not many of you are prepared to pay the $500k and actually get one?

Erm, just over half that amount would be about right (linky).

Not really sure that's the boat to take for a serious offshore race is it? And sure, $300k might get it on the starting line, but we'll see.

So the big question now (if it's such a great example of the boat people want - and cheap too)... How many sold?

I love those boats as much as anyone, but it's extremely hard to get them to market. That's reality. The segment between production racer/cruisers (J/111, SC37, Sydney 37, X-35, X-treme 37, T-34, ...) and racing custom designs from Ker/Farr/Corby/Mills/Bakewell-White is very small. Many have tried; 1D35, Farr 11s, Heiner 38, Ker 11.5 (now reincarnated as Ker 40 after they closed down after building one boat), Max Fun 35, ... Not many good examples in the last 30 years besides Melges and Farr.

And for a company like J/boats, in this kind of economy, trying to do a new J/125 or compete with the Melges 32 wasn't really an option.

But I guess there are plenty of choice for those who need (and are willing to pay for) more performance.

Fixed it for you. Otherwise mostly agree - as I had mentioned way earlier in this thread, J/Boats are great at serving the mainstream market. But with most of the people on this site not exactly being mainstream, you will this to be a somewhat tougher crowd...

 

[trilander]

We have owned 3 J boats.

First I grew up on a 24 tied to a dock from aged 4-14. It was a lot of fun and we even planed it out with the Chute up on the right days. WE swam, played and spent time as a family most importantly.

We got a 22 and raced that for a few years and then ended up with a 27. I also sailed extensively on a 29 and some on a racy 35. The boats are built well and race well. They are great to take the friends out on for a beer sail/lesson too. They always look good sailing upwind compared to many other brands I see on the water. Problem is they now are expensive and there are too many different designs across the family (this particular model will be a winner judging from the boats sold) Problem I have is who has the money or time to drag around 9,000 lbs or more to the BIG races. Clearly the future of one designs is towable behind a V-6 or hybrid? In the meantime my sailing family is WET for a 30+ farrier tri (or something else with three hulls that hauls ass and has a retractable board). For the same money as this J you could really trick out (carbon parts galore) a larger Farrier design with all the goodies. That is the future there. Blow past the fleet of 111's with your beer upright and half the crew. Later be found on the inside of the reef pulled up to some white sanded spit in paradise. I can't stand trying to explore exotic beaches from 7.5-9 ft keel depths.

J boat aint knocking you but my future wet dream has three hulls and kids on the tramps! I would love to commission a new Farrier 33 or something similar before epoxy and fuel prices run wild again.

 

[ragbag]

Is it faster than existing 35-40ft IRC designs 40? Unlikely.

You have got to be kidding. IRC is 6-7 kts upwind and 6-7 kts down wind. The 111 will do a horizon job on these boats down wind.

 

[jessehenry]

Holy cow, how friggin in-hauled is that jib - what's the setup they're using? The jib clew HAS to be high to clear the cabin top. Otherwise the foot can't scrape the deck cuz it's a furler sail - no end plate effect here boys.

As someone said earler, they went with a coachroof which looks too high - I know why but they made a lot of consessions.

to my eye the upwind pic doesn't look that impressive. Granted it's not an Audi-Med TP52 but it looks plodding. We'll see when it hits these shores.

Can you adjust the backstay easily or did they go for the dumbed down, lowest common demoninator hard-to-adjust handle at the back model?

you mean this??? Does not seem right to me?

anyone????.....

 

[Christian]

Holy cow, how friggin in-hauled is that jib - what's the setup they're using? The jib clew HAS to be high to clear the cabin top. Otherwise the foot can't scrape the deck cuz it's a furler sail - no end plate effect here boys.

As someone said earler, they went with a coachroof which looks too high - I know why but they made a lot of consessions.

to my eye the upwind pic doesn't look that impressive. Granted it's not an Audi-Med TP52 but it looks plodding. We'll see when it hits these shores.

Can you adjust the backstay easily or did they go for the dumbed down, lowest common demoninator hard-to-adjust handle at the back model?

you mean this??? Does not seem right to me?

anyone????.....

View attachment 141601

That jib is cut with a clew way too high. It is fine for the jib to be kissing the coach roof when max inhauled (actually ideal)

 

[Christian]

Is it faster than existing 35-40ft IRC designs 40? Unlikely.

You have got to be kidding. IRC is 6-7 kts upwind and 6-7 kts down wind. The 111 will do a horizon job on these boats down wind.

I hope you are right. From the pics it appears that is is digging quite the hole in the water and it remains to be seen how much of a blow it will take to make it brake free = I could be way off but my guess is something in the 25knot range.

 

[Tranquilo]

Love it, fugly windows, fucked up sails, too much white, wrong this and that and all. I bet it sails better then my boat and I want one.

 

[Superkilt]

So many anti-J responses, but I confess I have sung that gospel more than once - particularly with the 105. But, have you nay-sayers sailed a a 125? The point is, the fact that it is a "J" is not the deciding factor, but the fact that their "sucessful" boats are just not that fun to sail - and I am speaking from a high-performance perspective.

If indeed this 111 design is a go-fast design and not adhering to IRC (or whatever, for that matter), then they'll have a winner and it's resale value in 10 years will blow away the 122's because it's just more fun. As an aside, I wish J boats could get their pricing under control.

 

[ragbag]

That being said i am a little disapointed that the finished product wasn't the radical change in direction for J Boats that many people were expecting. I thought they would step out of their comfort zone and actually produce a hardcore, lightweight, T-bulb keel racer but it ended up being another 36ft cruiser/racer in their lineup.

J Boats did that back in 1998 with the J/90 and J/125. Hard-core, no compromises, pure. They sold 6 90s, and, what 12 125s? The Mrs. doesn't approve. These boats are still super cool (12 years later the J/125 is still winning big out there) but you will starve to death trying to keep a sail boat business afloat. For all our rhetoric, when it comes down to putting up real money, few of us want a boat that's a soaking wet, white-knuckle ride all the time.

 

[Jambalaya]

Smaller version J125. Fast reacher. Pole looks very long, lots of chute area. Will not do well in IRC. ( I predict 1.135). It will be a PHRF machine/ORR mediocre.

Beautiful boat.

1.135!?? surely too high. I agree though, beautiful boat - the wheel looks terrific., the 109 always looked unnaturally high.

Polaris is anti-IRC so throwing out a ridiculous number is part of his agenda. A J/122 rates 1.09. We can wait for the Rating Office but something around 1.04 ?

 

[GregLynn]

What the J111 has going for it is the dealer network and repeat buyers. Sad to see this knock off of the SC37 presell 30 hulls if this is true. The SC37 already tried to do too much (being trailerable) but at least the SC37 is looking forward. The J111 has a whiff of fresh thinking but its real appeal is to all the J repeat customers.

 

[hart]

Smaller version J125. Fast reacher. Pole looks very long, lots of chute area. Will not do well in IRC. ( I predict 1.135). It will be a PHRF machine/ORR mediocre.

Beautiful boat.

J Boats claim that it will rate at 1.100 on IRC, so a smidgeon more than an A40.....mmmmm......will it be quicker than the A, or the summit 35 that it will give time to?

so it doesn't sound like it is designed for IRC (admittedly as J Boats have always said).

thoughts on the pics:

1. how do those jib battens work on a furler?
2. i thought the furler was going to be flush - ish for more jib area. that looks like a standard furler
3. agree on the in-haulers, someone is overdoing that bit of trim by the look of it
4. agree backstay should be capable of being more easily adjusted by main trimmer
5. it does look heavy in the water to me. do you think they had all the factory staff down below as well?
6. visually it looks like it needs a hull colour to be "a looker". metallic silver?
7. like the pole length.....

 

[sailforbeer]

Smaller version J125. Fast reacher. Pole looks very long, lots of chute area. Will not do well in IRC. ( I predict 1.135). It will be a PHRF machine/ORR mediocre.

Beautiful boat.

1.135!?? surely too high. I agree though, beautiful boat - the wheel looks terrific., the 109 always looked unnaturally high.

Polaris is anti-IRC so throwing out a ridiculous number is part of his agenda. A J/122 rates 1.09. We can wait for the Rating Office but something around 1.04 ?

1.04? You must be kidding. The specs say the boat will weigh around 9000 pounds. V-berth optional. Short overhangs. 130m2 kite. Polaris is high but you are very low. TCC will be 1.1x -- I'd guess 1.118 just to throw a number out.

And then lots of those 30 pre-sales will evaporate. Because if hull 20 or so won't splash until next year as said in another thread, OD will take far too long to materialize and this boat is DOA in IRC.

There must be a trial certificate somewhere. This thing has been in development for almost a year and no clue what the trial was? What does that tell you?

 

[DrKommo]

i think it is uninspiring, and it looks slow

Now that's what I call a boat! Pity I can't afford to run a 50hp 4 stroke outboard for the weekend.

 

[arr4ws]

Way to plasticky looking for that kind of money.

Santa cruz 37 looks way better anyway.

 

[Slam Matt]

Looks a bit heavy in the water with it's ass dragging a lot! Doesn't look so good to me!

 

[chrisdowling]

I will pre-empt this by stating that I am J boat dealer!

I love all the couch commentary from people who haven't even sailed one yet! I called this morning and there are now 32 boats pre-sold! That is more than double the amount of J/105's that were presold when it was released and they are still in production with over 600 boats out sailing! Not sure if all of these are previous J-owners. My client presently owns a J/105.

I think it was a tough decision to release a new boat in the same size range as a current production model. Time will tell if this was a wise choice. People are knocking the price but I think it is priced competetively with it's competition in the market place. Again, time will tell but selling 32 boats in an extremely down economy shows a lot of faith in Rod, Al and the rest of the company that you do not see going on anywhere else in this size range at this time! Poo poo it if you will but this is going to be a successfull boat.

I will be sailing the boat boat on the 12th and 13th of this month. I will come back and let you know my opinion of the boat's actual sailing abilities then. Until then I only have an opinion based on the history of the company, it's products (over 14,000 built) and what I have seen by visiting the factory during the boat's production. Anyone else that has better first hand experience sailing on the boat or against it should speak up and give a real opinion about this boat.

I await the post bashing....

 

[rustymk]

Nice looking boat. I'll take one. And when I say "take" I mean "steal" as there would be no other way for me to get one.

I'm not an engineer or designer, and I am sure there are plenty of people who THINK that they are and will say something about my post..... but to me, the main looks kinda small for the size of the boat. Maybe it is just a optical illusion or something as I have not seen the design specs and compared it to other similar sized boats or other past J-boat designs.

 

[Alec's Left Nut]

I will pre-empt this by stating that I am J boat dealer!

I love all the couch commentary from people who haven't even sailed one yet! I called this morning and there are now 32 boats pre-sold! That is more than double the amount of J/105's that were presold when it was released and they are still in production with over 600 boats out sailing! Not sure if all of these are previous J-owners. My client presently owns a J/105.

I think it was a tough decision to release a new boat in the same size range as a current production model. Time will tell if this was a wise choice. People are knocking the price but I think it is priced competetively with it's competition in the market place. Again, time will tell but selling 32 boats in an extremely down economy shows a lot of faith in Rod, Al and the rest of the company that you do not see going on anywhere else in this size range at this time! Poo poo it if you will but this is going to be a successfull boat.

I will be sailing the boat boat on the 12th and 13th of this month. I will come back and let you know my opinion of the boat's actual sailing abilities then. Until then I only have an opinion based on the history of the company, it's products (over 14,000 built) and what I have seen by visiting the factory during the boat's production. Anyone else that has better first hand experience sailing on the boat or against it should speak up and give a real opinion about this boat.

I await the post bashing....

No offense but I can see why you're a boat salesman and not a rocket scientist. To discount performance opinions with sales figures wouldn't even fly in high-school debating mate, it's not the same topic. Lada's are slow but people bought 'em.

Maybe about 10 people on the planet have sailed a J111 granted but I have faith there are lots of experienced nerds on the site who crunch key performance indicators (SA/Displ, chute size, upwind SA, LWL, BWL, draft, disp:ballast, etc.) and current J-Boat owners who can do some reasonable extrapolation of this coupled with the pictures they saw. I know that's what I did. It was light airs and I agree the boat a) sits quite low in the water compared to the out-of-water shots, and b ) didn't look like it had long legs.

They're predictions, just like baseball, we've seen the team on paper, it's now spring training, it looks slow and overweight and not especially high performing, do we think it'll win the world series like we're led to believe in the press? Excuse us for having an opinion.

Lastly luck you that you get to sail one, but what the fuck else are you going to say about it besides the obvious? Your wife will leave you if you don't make your sales target.