J/111 Goes Sailing...

Some great photos of another 111.

Kudos to Blur for hosting them on his site. Well done.

111 Photos

DG
Nice find :D

I also did a short write-up on http://www.blur.se/2011/11/13/j111-piranha-test-sail/

White paint + dirty bottoms is always a problem trying to get good photos. Even at the big championships they either sand them down to much or get dirty in a few days. The good thing is that you can clean the boat in PhotoShop, but it's work you only want to do if you get paid.

Hope to post a video as well in the next few days.
Hey BLUR, Fantastic images and overview (on your website) of the boat! Glad you were finally able to get out on one and "feel the love."

I did notice in the images that the carbon spar on PIRANHA is clear coated. The Hall carbon nanotube(ZyVex/Arovex)spars I have seen here in the US (#4 INVISIBLE HAND and #17 MADMEN) are both finished in black LPU; there is an option for white as well. Are the European produced boats using a different mast...or are the later Hall J-111 nanotube spars just finished in clear coat vs. LPU?

 
Last edited by a moderator:

ragbag

Anarchist
111 Photos

DG

I did notice in the images that the carbon spar on PIRANHA is clear coated. The Hall carbon nanotube(ZyVex/Arovex)spars I have seen here in the US (#4 INVISIBLE HAND and #17 MADMEN) are both finished in black LPU; there is an option for white as well. Are the European produced boats using a different mast...or are the later Hall J-111 nanotube spars just finished in clear coat vs. LPU?
Clear coat does not hold up well in my prior experience, a few hard tacks, and the coating starts cracking and chipping. On #4, we also had an adhesive rubberized plastic pad applied to the front of the mast where the head sail clew travels across to protect the coating. It is pitch black, you can barely see it.

 

Blur

Super Anarchist
1,236
246
Sweden
Nice write up, good name for a 111. It's time for you to move on from the 109 ! B)
:D

Regarding the mast it's Hall Spar from Holland. Great looking but both mast & boom needs protection from chafe. On the J/109 we use PROtect Tape (italian stuff) both on deck, coachroof (tackline + furler) and on the mast. Piranha used something similar along the side to protect the very nice Awlgrip paintjob.

One thing that has been discussed here is that the sprit is not as stiff as the one we got on the 109. Anyone know who makes the sprit? Specification? Should be the Hall nano-stuff as well...

I also would like some input on the downwind setup. Getting 100% out of the boat is key to sailing to the rating. TWS range for the big kite? When is a kite to much? Jibtop?

Plus if someone figured out a way to manage a heavy weather jib together with a rolled up jib? Ideally on a roller, halyard lock and a way to tension it downwards. Doing headsail changes solo- or doublehanded when it's blowing +25 knots is always messy.

 

Goblew

Member
325
6
Detroit Area
Class rules on crew weight for J111 seems to be 650kg all up - ie INCLUDING the owner/driver, which is a bit different from the UK 109 setup (600kg + owner). 650/8 = 81kg, which seems to be about right - helm, main, 3 trimmers (or 2 trimmers + sewer/nav/tactics), pit, mast, foredeck. Drop a trimmer if your sailing with fat boys. 8 also happens to be IRC crew number.

Don't know if its relevant but J-dream, (one of the better UK 109's - who also had a pro at UK 109 nationals) have been advertising for some weight for their new 111 recently, despite the fact the 109 crew would probably have been over the 650kg limit - I'm thinking they may be feeling that hanging some lard out upwind could help in W/L on what appears to be an easily powered up boat....
There is no 111 class racing yet, all irc and I recall the winter series allows irc crew limit+2. Generally pays to be as heavy as possible in winter series as its generally stronger winds.
Ugotta Regatta on Lake Michigan last July had 5 J111's in their own class

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,711
118
Hamble / Paris
Ugotta Regatta on Lake Michigan last July had 5 J111's in their own class
My reference was related to the UK which was what pjrs and I were discussing. There is an indicative 2012 OD programme of a few events where the 111's should have a class score if not a class start.

I am hopeful for the development of class racing in UK but it's worth noting the OD success of the 109 came about due to strong sales based upon IRC success. The UK boats sold to date have been to a variety of owners, Schmoking Joe (probably) and J-Dream will race class W/L events. Arabella owner is interested in sailing his new boat in the US and when in Europe his interest is primarily in offshore racing. If the UK Agent still owns Jenga in 2012 it will race class events. The Munkenbeck owner rarely sailed his 109 but hopefully will do more in the 111.

OD isn't seen as such a big deal in the UK, partly due to owners being happy with IRC and partly due to the variety of events including passage racing and offshore - there is a lot to choose from and UK J111 OD is never going to rival the profile or competition of the Fastnet or Commodore's Cup. There may be 40 or 50 109's in the big OD events of the past few years (Cowes Week, Cork Week Europeans 2010) but it's not close to the same standard. The great thing for me is the 111 will do well in passage events and that will generate the profile.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
111 Photos

DG

I did notice in the images that the carbon spar on PIRANHA is clear coated. The Hall carbon nanotube(ZyVex/Arovex)spars I have seen here in the US (#4 INVISIBLE HAND and #17 MADMEN) are both finished in black LPU; there is an option for white as well. Are the European produced boats using a different mast...or are the later Hall J-111 nanotube spars just finished in clear coat vs. LPU?
Clear coat does not hold up well in my prior experience, a few hard tacks, and the coating starts cracking and chipping. On #4, we also had an adhesive rubberized plastic pad applied to the front of the mast where the head sail clew travels across to protect the coating. It is pitch black, you can barely see it.
We followed your lead on the front of the mast protection...and a few other things too ;0))...

 

pjrs

Member
496
0
Ugotta Regatta on Lake Michigan last July had 5 J111's in their own class
My reference was related to the UK which was what pjrs and I were discussing. There is an indicative 2012 OD programme of a few events where the 111's should have a class score if not a class start.

I am hopeful for the development of class racing in UK but it's worth noting the OD success of the 109 came about due to strong sales based upon IRC success. The UK boats sold to date have been to a variety of owners, Schmoking Joe (probably) and J-Dream will race class W/L events. Arabella owner is interested in sailing his new boat in the US and when in Europe his interest is primarily in offshore racing. If the UK Agent still owns Jenga in 2012 it will race class events. The Munkenbeck owner rarely sailed his 109 but hopefully will do more in the 111.

OD isn't seen as such a big deal in the UK, partly due to owners being happy with IRC and partly due to the variety of events including passage racing and offshore - there is a lot to choose from and UK J111 OD is never going to rival the profile or competition of the Fastnet or Commodore's Cup. There may be 40 or 50 109's in the big OD events of the past few years (Cowes Week, Cork Week Europeans 2010) but it's not close to the same standard. The great thing for me is the 111 will do well in passage events and that will generate the profile.

I've wondered a couple of times why J-UK haven't established an offshore categoryfor the 111 OD rules. Basing it around an IRC optimised sailplan, so allow an extra headsail for a JT and extra spinnaker or two for code 0 and reacher over the 2 headsails, 2 kites class rules. Use maximum areas on the additional sails so there's still a bit of IRC flexibility. This would allow class scoring within the existing UK IRC racing for minimal additional outlay for those J111'sthat are already doing offshore sailing. The boats strength is undoubtedly offshore/passage, it wouldn't take too much to get setup and would give another incentive for owning. As Jambalya says, for the UK market IRC success with the chance of OD seems to be a winning formula, so why not play it to the boats strengths

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,711
118
Hamble / Paris
pjrs - if I had the money (always a big if !) - I'd go with OD sails for main (but with more reefs and heavier construction), jibs and kite and buy offshore sails like JT and reaching/heavy kites and race offshore under IRC, there is never likely to be OD scoring offshore. Look at the 109's, fleets of 30-40 OD and 10 boats doing offshore all under IRC with ratigs from 1.01 to 1.03 and most of them do very little or no OD. When I was racing 105s (in UK and France) most of the top boats focused on offshore and did OD for a little variety so the sail choices were driven by offshore IRC and if they weren't optimal for OD so be it.

It will be interesting to see the split, if any, amongst J111 owners inshore vs offshore bias.

 

mmayer

Member
75
7
Class rules on crew weight for J111 seems to be 650kg all up - ie INCLUDING the owner/driver, which is a bit different from the UK 109 setup (600kg + owner). 650/8 = 81kg, which seems to be about right - helm, main, 3 trimmers (or 2 trimmers + sewer/nav/tactics), pit, mast, foredeck. Drop a trimmer if your sailing with fat boys. 8 also happens to be IRC crew number.

Don't know if its relevant but J-dream, (one of the better UK 109's - who also had a pro at UK 109 nationals) have been advertising for some weight for their new 111 recently, despite the fact the 109 crew would probably have been over the 650kg limit - I'm thinking they may be feeling that hanging some lard out upwind could help in W/L on what appears to be an easily powered up boat....
There is no 111 class racing yet, all irc and I recall the winter series allows irc crew limit+2. Generally pays to be as heavy as possible in winter series as its generally stronger winds.
Ugotta Regatta on Lake Michigan last July had 5 J111's in their own class
We had 6 J/111 racing OD there and at the Verve Cup in Chicago. Also 6 in the Chicago Mac.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,711
118
Hamble / Paris
Nice video. That pink kite looks quite small. Did you notice a difference with the yellow one ? Boat quite heeled upwind , your view on crew weight and main trim (sheet a bit slack and outhaul quite loose, perhaps not representative) ?

 

ragbag

Anarchist
Nice video. That pink kite looks quite small. Did you notice a difference with the yellow one ? Boat quite heeled upwind , your view on crew weight and main trim (sheet a bit slack and outhaul quite loose, perhaps not representative) ?
Didn't look like they were flying the big kite A4, did they? Conditions seemed fine for the A4 .

 

Blur

Super Anarchist
1,236
246
Sweden
Nice video. That pink kite looks quite small. Did you notice a difference with the yellow one ? Boat quite heeled upwind , your view on crew weight and main trim (sheet a bit slack and outhaul quite loose, perhaps not representative) ?
Didn't look like they were flying the big kite A4, did they? Conditions seemed fine for the A4 .
As I wrote in my article, the spinnaker designs was pretty different to what I'm used to with North. The pink one we started out with was a smaller one, but the yellow was supposed to be a full size A3. To bad the wind dropped during the day... But the downwind speed must have been ok since it took ages to get back to the harbour :lol:

Upwind, naturally "fat is fast" when it comes to crew weight, but it was stiff and will make a great doublehanded boat. I didn't go into details when it came to trim, but I would definitely try flatter, tighter and more twist on both jib and main like we do on the J/109. We'll see.

 




Top