J/111 Goes Sailing...

ragbag

Anarchist
j111hull-1.jpg


At CDG, flying home after a day at JB Composites in France.

It's now official that Blur3 is a J/111.

Plan A is to have the boat delivered to Spi Ouest in april, but there's still some work to be done to get that planned and crew committed. Several other owners from around Europe are looking at the same option, so final hull # depends on how/when we all decide to get our boats commissioned.
You finally broke down, good for you!

 

Crash

Super Anarchist
5,073
1,007
SoCal
j111hull-1.jpg


At CDG, flying home after a day at JB Composites in France.

It's now official that Blur3 is a J/111.

Plan A is to have the boat delivered to Spi Ouest in april, but there's still some work to be done to get that planned and crew committed. Several other owners from around Europe are looking at the same option, so final hull # depends on how/when we all decide to get our boats commissioned.
Somebody's gonna get a really sweet and well sorted 109 out of the deal too!

 

dickie greenleaf

Super Anarchist
j111hull-1.jpg


At CDG, flying home after a day at JB Composites in France.

It's now official that Blur3 is a J/111.

Plan A is to have the boat delivered to Spi Ouest in april, but there's still some work to be done to get that planned and crew committed. Several other owners from around Europe are looking at the same option, so final hull # depends on how/when we all decide to get our boats commissioned.
Looks good, bro.

DG

 

Goblew

Member
325
6
Detroit Area
I was on a J111 recently at a boatshow. I've no doubt their quick but by god are they overpriced for what you get. Fair dues to J Boats if they can persuade people to part with that kind of cash for a boat that must be very cheap to manufacture in relative terms.
Compared to what, for example?

 

Goblew

Member
325
6
Detroit Area
j111hull-1.jpg


At CDG, flying home after a day at JB Composites in France.

It's now official that Blur3 is a J/111.

Plan A is to have the boat delivered to Spi Ouest in april, but there's still some work to be done to get that planned and crew committed. Several other owners from around Europe are looking at the same option, so final hull # depends on how/when we all decide to get our boats commissioned.
Cool!

 

Blur

Super Anarchist
1,236
245
Sweden
I was on a J111 recently at a boatshow. I've no doubt their quick but by god are they overpriced for what you get. Fair dues to J Boats if they can persuade people to part with that kind of cash for a boat that must be very cheap to manufacture in relative terms.
Compared to what, for example?
Don't engage in this debate again. If corkob wanna find out what "overpriced" means - I suggest he go visit the production at J/boats and Beneteau. Take a closer look at coretec/foam layout, glass/resin levels, weight control, keel mould/finsih, deck gear, Hall Spar nanotube carbon mast, sprit specs, ... When you got the numbers, we'll discuss value instead of price.

70+ sold boats and ramped up production is proof enough :)

But, this is SA, so it would be interesting to know what corkob thinks is great value for money if you wanted a 36' speedster?

 
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Blur

Super Anarchist
1,236
245
Sweden
You wouldn't happen to sell or own a J111 by any chance? I smell paranoa and a vested interest somewhere.
If you bothered to read the thread you'll find I just bought one.

I did my homework on the boat before buying one (3 test sails with different boats in different conditions + 3 visits to production both in the US and in France + visit to Hall Spars). Plus racing an overpriced J/109 for 5 years.

But I'm sure your 10 minutes analysis after seeing a boat on a boat show is the correct one.

Oh, and thanks for the complete list of better alternatives.

 
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Goblew

Member
325
6
Detroit Area
You wouldn't happen to sell or own a J111 by any chance? I smell paranoa and a vested interest somewhere.
If you bothered to read the thread you'll find I just bought one.

I did my homework on the boat before buying one (3 test sails with different boats in different conditions + 3 visits to production both in the US and in France + visit to Hall Spars). Plus racing an overpriced J/109 for 5 years.

But I'm sure your 10 minutes analysis after seeing a boat on a boat show is the correct one.

Oh, and thanks for the complete list of better alternatives.
yes, i own one as well and did fairly extensive comparisons before my decision. So I'm always curious to see more facts than opinion. So, Corkob, what say you? What would you consider better value in a comparably performing and constructed boat?

 

corkob

Anarchist
Hey Guys, different strokes for different folks and whatever happened to the right to express an opinion? After all if we all sailed J-111's it would be very boring wouldn't it . I was impressed with the lines and cockpit layout of the J-111. My impression however is that it felt cheap and poorly finished for the price (with the exception of the Hall spars mast). In addition the front cabin is unusable due to the presence of the bow sprit and I expect the boat will be constantly wet taking water through the bow sprit when under load. I would consider the interior to be virtually unusable from a cruising perspective because of this which rules out any real dual purpose aspect to the boat which is to me a huge disadvantage. In my view a boat should be both fast and usable. I am sure she is a rocket off the wind in a blow but I couldn't imagine doing a long offshore in one which is something I require a boat to be able to do. Also having raced against J109's and J133's I am not at all convinced about the J sprit in windward leeward courses. For a similarly paced boat I would opt for either an X41 - better quality, more versatile having a pole, much better interior, excellent resale, dual purpose and better looking. I accept that the X rates a bit higher and costs a bit more but not that much and in my view worth the premium. Alternatively an Elan 410 which would be a good deal cheaper, an Archambault 40RC which again would be cheaper or a First 40CR which would be considerably cheaper. If size is your issue then an X35, an A35 or a First 35 would all be much cheaper and with lower ratings. All the above are competitive boats with proven track records. Obviously everyone has different priorities when looking at boats. What other boats did you consider before coming to your decision?

 

Blur

Super Anarchist
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Sweden
Hey Guys, different strokes for different folks and whatever happened to the right to express an opinion? After all if we all sailed J-111's it would be very boring wouldn't it . I was impressed with the lines and cockpit layout of the J-111. My impression however is that it felt cheap and poorly finished for the price (with the exception of the Hall spars mast). In addition the front cabin is unusable due to the presence of the bow sprit and I expect the boat will be constantly wet taking water through the bow sprit when under load. I would consider the interior to be virtually unusable from a cruising perspective because of this which rules out any real dual purpose aspect to the boat which is to me a huge disadvantage. In my view a boat should be both fast and usable. I am sure she is a rocket off the wind in a blow but I couldn't imagine doing a long offshore in one which is something I require a boat to be able to do. Also having raced against J109's and J133's I am not at all convinced about the J sprit in windward leeward courses. For a similarly paced boat I would opt for either an X41 - better quality, more versatile having a pole, much better interior, excellent resale, dual purpose and better looking. I accept that the X rates a bit higher and costs a bit more but not that much and in my view worth the premium. Alternatively an Elan 410 which would be a good deal cheaper, an Archambault 40RC which again would be cheaper or a First 40CR which would be considerably cheaper. If size is your issue then an X35, an A35 or a First 35 would all be much cheaper and with lower ratings. All the above are competitive boats with proven track records. Obviously everyone has different priorities when looking at boats. What other boats did you consider before coming to your decision?
Valid points (and some misconceptions about sprits).

I considered X-35 and A35 when I bought the J/109 - more a matter of taste than anything. And today the First 35 would be on the list as well. Probably the First 35 and 40 are the most sensible choices if you want a cruiser/racer.

But looking at the racer/cruiser segment from the "overpriced" perspective, I lost less money on my J/109 than my friends who got X-35 and A-35 at the same time. And I can today get a race ready 2007 X-41 for the same money I got when I sold my 2007 J/109 three weeks ago (both boats bought new in 2007 and raced in Scandinavia). So "excellent resale" might mean different things to different people.

In the end both Xp 38, J/111 and First 40 are selling very well - but in completely different segments of the market. You might think that a J/111 is overpriced and I might think that 520.000 USD is a bit much for a well speced Xp38. But both boats are still selling, so I guess both J and X got their pricing right :)

 
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corkob

Anarchist
Did you not find with your J109 that on a windward leeward course that you struggled against poled boats? Most certainly offshore the disadvantage seems to evaporate somewhat. By the way, well wear with the new boat. I'm sure you'll have great fun with it. Will she not be a bit of a handful shorthanded though?

 

Blur

Super Anarchist
1,236
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Sweden
Did you not find with your J109 that on a windward leeward course that you struggled against poled boats? Most certainly offshore the disadvantage seems to evaporate somewhat. By the way, well wear with the new boat. I'm sure you'll have great fun with it. Will she not be a bit of a handful shorthanded though?
With the J/109 we've won W/L races against X-35 and First 35 and have no problem going as deep as we need to keep pace. Offshore we don't worry and regulary beat IMX-40 and Elan 410 on the water if it's a long downwind leg... With the J/111 last weekend (3 W/L races under ORC in Holland) we actually sailed deeper than some of Europe's best X-35's in 4-6 knots of breeze. Scored 1-1-2 (lost out to a J/122 in the last race).

http://www.grevelingencup.nl/index.php/wedstrijdinformatie/resultaten.html

It's all about assy design - and it's come a long way just in the last 3-4 years.

Naturally it will be a handfull solo and doublehanded, but because of weight and sailplan the loads are much less than some of the alternatives. The J/111 I raced in Holland actually led Fastnet Doublehanded at the rock (and they also won Round Dritain and Ireland Doublehanded in a J/109 a couple of years ago).

17870_0_2_photo_FSNT11cb_56498.jpg


 
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Quagers

Member
430
48
UK
Alternatively an Elan 410 which would be a good deal cheaper, an Archambault 40RC which again would be cheaper or a First 40CR which would be considerably cheaper. If size is your issue then an X35, an A35 or a First 35 would all be much cheaper and with lower ratings. All the above are competitive boats with proven track records. Obviously everyone has different priorities when looking at boats. What other boats did you consider before coming to your decision?
Just on the E410, actually doesnt sail to its rating as well as could be hoped (or at least not in some configurations) the one very competitive one in the Solent was disappointed by it by all accounts and were considering switching back to their old Elan 40. Also not very dry offshore, I have no idea where that water came from but there was a lot of it!

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,709
112
Hamble / Paris
It's now official that Blur3 is a J/111.

Plan A is to have the boat delivered to Spi Ouest in april, but there's still some work to be done to get that planned and crew committed. Several other owners from around Europe are looking at the same option, so final hull # depends on how/when we all decide to get our boats commissioned.
Congratulations.

Spi Ouest is a great regatta, get yourself over there for a few days of training/shakedown then enjoy. My top tip is to stay at Lodge Kerisper

 

Goblew

Member
325
6
Detroit Area
Valid points (and some misconceptions about sprits).

I considered X-35 and A35 when I bought the J/109 - more a matter of taste than anything. And today the First 35 would be on the list as well. Probably the First 35 and 40 are the most sensible choices if you want a cruiser/racer.

But looking at the racer/cruiser segment from the "overpriced" perspective, I lost less money on my J/109 than my friends who got X-35 and A-35 at the same time. And I can today get a race ready 2007 X-41 for the same money I got when I sold my 2007 J/109 three weeks ago (both boats bought new in 2007 and raced in Scandinavia). So "excellent resale" might mean different things to different people.

In the end both Xp 38, J/111 and First 40 are selling very well - but in completely different segments of the market. You might think that a J/111 is overpriced and I might think that 520.000 USD is a bit much for a well speced Xp38. But both boats are still selling, so I guess both J and X got their pricing right :)
Ahh, my faith in the Irish (Corkob, that is) is restored.... I also considered the A35 and X-35 as well as the First 35 as pretty much my shortlist. I wanted a sprit boat (specifically for better shorthanded capability) vs traditional symmetric which lowered the F35 and X35. Manufacturer and dealer support were also considerations on the X-35 and A35. Compared pricing on all with similar specs. Once you add carbon masts to these, the pricing came much closer (at least here in the States). Since cruising isn't that much of a priority for me, I find the 111 interior fine for my purposes (race deliveries, overnight during regatta's, etc.) and it's very easy to setup for offshore. I've had no problems with water coming through the sprit due to its design, however a few teething issues with a new boat that have been addressed. In terms of resale, J's have always done well and I felt that that would hold up better here in the States than the others that have limited exposure. Build quality may mean different things to different people (level of finish vs. construction, for example). On my old boat, if someone jumped on the deck, the whole boat shook. On the J, it's just rock solid while being a ton lighter and 6 foot longer.

 
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pjrs

Member
496
0
Snip

It's all about assy design - and it's come a long way just in the last 3-4 years.

Naturally it will be a handfull solo and doublehanded, but because of weight and sailplan the loads are much less than some of the alternatives. The J/111 I raced in Holland actually led Fastnet Doublehanded at the rock (and they also won Round Dritain and Ireland Doublehanded in a J/109 a couple of years ago).

Snipety, snip.
Blur

Which boat/race was that? Only one I can think of from (literally) a couple of years ago is RWYC RBI2H from Plymouth, don't recall a 109 winning it, but can't find results on line atm.

Actually think that 111 will make a great shorthanded offshore boat, as you say, less loaded than a more typical IRC boat, enough sail area to be a challenge/rewarding, has a rating that it has shown it can sail to off W/L courses, its smack in the middle of my ideal size range for short handed racing and has an interior that provides everything you need, without a lot of unnecessary ballast.

 
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