J/111 IRC TCC

Bobsled

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A prior post said you had a Synergy 1000. Do you have a J92 as well? Otherwise ???

J92's do well under IRC in the UK, just with smaller genoas (135-140).

 

Polaris

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Does anybody know what the PHRF number is going to be for the 111 in KW? Not listed yet.
I've heard 36 same as the 1D35
If that's true, that's about what I figured. 1.109 IRC equivalent is a far cry from 1.091. It will be interesting to see how it performs in it's class. As well, 36 for the 1D35 is fair as well, to hit them into the 20's is not right.

thanks

 
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Novy1

New member
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I think J111 will be a laughing stock if they race it in PHRF at KWRW. J-Boats may be saved that embarrasment by the demise of the regatta, with it's decline they could easily skip it. The first J111 is going to NZ so perhaps they can say there isn't a boat or owner ready for KW.
First, that depends on what rating the J/111 gets. So, how can it be a laughing stock already? Second, it depends on the race course. Sprit boats don't do well on WW/LW courses. We get a decent rating, and a race course that has reaching legs, it will do very well.
That is a bit too much of a generalization - some sprit boats do very well on W/L courses
In my experience(lots)the only sprit boats that do well in W/L courses are either: (a)racing against other sprit boats or (b)super light boats that plane in lighter breeze i.e. Shaw 650. Put a displacement sprit boat against a like hulled spin pole boat and it's as Larry Ellison says Syonara! General enough for ya?

 

Polaris

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Heriberto

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This is modified from what I posted this in the KWRW 2011 but should have posted here.

Here is a (in US measurements) of two modern carbon masted, sprit-boat racer-cruisers with remarkably similar numbers:

J111/ Farr 395

LOA 36.5/ 39.4

LWL 32.7/ 34.1

Beam 10.8/ 12.2

Draft 7/ 7.8

Disp 8,600/ 12,500

Up SA 735/ 1000

Dn SA 1,805/ 2206

D/Ln 110/ 129

SA/D up 28/ 28

SA/D Dn 69/ 66

PHRF 48/ 30

IRC 1.079/ 1.12x

The SA/D upwind is identical, the SA/D downwind favors the J111 (5%), the Disp/Length favors the J111 (17%), the draft to length slightly favors the Farr395 (4%) (meaning likely the depth of displacement might favor the Farr395, would need to know more about the keels and interiors, I've seen the Farr's (plushy, lotsa carbon) but not the J111). The beam is a wash. Both are swept spreader sprit boats with carbon masts and (reportedly) racer cruiser interiors, the 395 might have more carbon, but is much older. The Farr395 has 4% more LWL and 8% more LOA. Based on LWL hull speed the Farr395 is 7.82kts and 7.66kts for the J111, a 2% increase for the Farr. Otherwise, when there is a tilt in nearly all of the other factors, they are in the J111's favor.

So yeah, I think that using the factors that most consider govern most speed potential, this is a pretty close comparison and the numbers are pretty "similar". The only thing that is a wild card is wetted surface, and that is notoriously difficult to come up with. I think it would be interesting to see how they give such a strong advantage to the 10 or so year old Farr, 18 seconds/mile is a pretty strong advantage.

Would be interested in a contrasting opinion, since I don't know much about the J111 aside from what they publish.
 

Christian

Super Anarchist
[

I think J111 will be a laughing stock if they race it in PHRF at KWRW. J-Boats may be saved that embarrasment by the demise of the regatta, with it's decline they could easily skip it. The first J111 is going to NZ so perhaps they can say there isn't a boat or owner ready for KW.
First, that depends on what rating the J/111 gets. So, how can it be a laughing stock already? Second, it depends on the race course. Sprit boats don't do well on WW/LW courses. We get a decent rating, and a race course that has reaching legs, it will do very well.
That is a bit too much of a generalization - some sprit boats do very well on W/L courses
In my experience(lots)the only sprit boats that do well in W/L courses are either: (a)racing against other sprit boats or (b)super light boats that plane in lighter breeze i.e. Shaw 650. Put a displacement sprit boat against a like hulled spin pole boat and it's as Larry Ellison says Syonara! General enough for ya?
I guess you don't get out much..........

 

left hook

Super Anarchist
7,473
5
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I think J111 will be a laughing stock if they race it in PHRF at KWRW. J-Boats may be saved that embarrasment by the demise of the regatta, with it's decline they could easily skip it. The first J111 is going to NZ so perhaps they can say there isn't a boat or owner ready for KW.
First, that depends on what rating the J/111 gets. So, how can it be a laughing stock already? Second, it depends on the race course. Sprit boats don't do well on WW/LW courses. We get a decent rating, and a race course that has reaching legs, it will do very well.
That is a bit too much of a generalization - some sprit boats do very well on W/L courses
In my experience(lots)the only sprit boats that do well in W/L courses are either: (a)racing against other sprit boats or (b)super light boats that plane in lighter breeze i.e. Shaw 650. Put a displacement sprit boat against a like hulled spin pole boat and it's as Larry Ellison says Syonara! General enough for ya?
I guess you don't get out much..........
Methinks he's related to mike wofsey

 

Sunsetsailing

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WLIS
you think 50 would be a dissapointment? keep in mind it is only a ~36' cruiser/racer. I think its PHRF will come in between 50 and 60, probably closer to the lower end with an IRC rating of 1.055-1.085. I would not go as far to say the boat will break the 1.1 barrier. If it does, it will not be able to sail to that number, but that is to be expected. J boats said from the beginning that this boat is NOT an IRC boat but I don't think it will get hammered with its rating. A rating of 1.118 would mean a PHRF number of around 20. I'm just not that optimistic about it's speed. J boats was very conservative with the design of the 111 and I believe it will result in conservative numbers.
Look at the ID35, its PHRF rating is much lower then 50.

 

Sunsetsailing

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WLIS
Does anybody have an endorsed cert. of the J111, we are very curious what the real weight of the boat is. (knowing that not all the boats are exactely the same)

Here in Holland we have two J111 orc measured one at a weight of 4300kg and the other one 4900kg (15%) more. I know it is based on freeboard heights but still.

 

Polaris

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Does anybody have an endorsed cert. of the J111, we are very curious what the real weight of the boat is. (knowing that not all the boats are exactely the same)

Here in Holland we have two J111 orc measured one at a weight of 4300kg and the other one 4900kg (15%) more. I know it is based on freeboard heights but still.
You can get any certificate that you want from USSA for minimal price.

 

ragbag

Anarchist
Does anybody have an endorsed cert. of the J111, we are very curious what the real weight of the boat is. (knowing that not all the boats are exactely the same)

Here in Holland we have two J111 orc measured one at a weight of 4300kg and the other one 4900kg (15%) more. I know it is based on freeboard heights but still.
Ours #4 weighed in right at the specified weight as part of its ORR measurement.

 

j109

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UK
Could someone please advise whether PHRF is as penal on mainsail girth measurements as IRC seems to be?

 

dolphinmaster

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1,650
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Chapel Hill, NC
Could someone please advise whether PHRF is as penal on mainsail girth measurements as IRC seems to be?
you sir are not only a newbie, but also totally misunderstand phrf so significantly, ...... you are required to not only post naked pictures of your wife and girlfriends, also post naked pictures of every attractive women you have ever seen or ogled.

Only then, will your transgressions be absolved.

 

j109

New member
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UK
not newbie just had to reregister, as so long since i bothered to use this site due to the abuse given to people who all share the same interest!

PHRF only seems to take account of how well boats are sailed not what sails they use. Can this really be true? If it is, why do they not adopt IRC optimised sails for class rules?

 
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