J/45

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us7070

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every time there is a new J boat.., a bunch of people come along and post about; how boring the boat is.., what a mistake it is.., how ugly it is.., that it's not faster than boats they built 20 years ago.., and on and on..., usually concluding that they won't sell any of them.., or if they do it will only be to a few dumb asses who get conned by the J Boat "marketing".

yet, they continue to sell tons of boats, and screw-ups are rare.

i'd bet they had a dozen at least unofficial commitments before they announced this - as in " when you build a new J/44 or new J/46, let me know, because I want to be first in line"

 
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TwoLegged

TwoLegged

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us7070 said:
every time there is a new J boat.., a bunch of people come along and post about; how boring the boat is.., what a mistake it is.., how ugly it is.., that it's not faster than boats they built 20 years ago.., and on and on..., usually concluding that they won't sell any of them.., or if they do it will only be to a few dumb asses who get conned by the J Boat "marketing".
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Actually, most of the comments are nothing like the pile-on you describe.  They are asking questions, both about the boat and about the target market.

But hey, if it makes you happy to attack an imaginary attack fest, feel free to get that "haters gonna hate" response of your chest.

 
Crash

Crash

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In 7070's defense, thought the comments in this thread are more as Legs describes, and less of the "more typical" J-Hate SA is known for, go read the first 20 or so posts in the J/9 thread to see more of the standard pile-ons we have come to expect with every new J.  

It's just kinda a thing we've all gotten used to and now expect.  So maybe on this thread 7070 "saw" more into the questions then is there?

 
Roleur

Roleur

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Crash said:
In 7070's defense, thought the comments in this thread are more as Legs describes, and less of the "more typical" J-Hate SA is known for, go read the first 20 or so posts in the J/9 thread to see more of the standard pile-ons we have come to expect with every new J.  

It's just kinda a thing we've all gotten used to and now expect.  So maybe on this thread 7070 "saw" more into the questions then is there?
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Or the first page of the J/111 thread.  You'd think that boat was a disaster of performance, looks, and marketing.  Look at how that turned out, 200+ boats later.

 
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us7070

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just so it's clear, I am not an uncritical J Boat fan.

while I have owned two J Boats,  i like X-Yachts.., I have raced on two of them - one is pretty new, and think that in general they are better built than J Boats (The US ones at least)  - certainly they are more consistently good. I almost bought an X-40. I tried to look at an Arcona 400, but it sold before I could get to it.

two of the J Boats I raced on had keel sump issues that required quite a lot of work. They both were built in the US. My current J Boat is a french built boat, and I think it's better than the American built boats I have sailed on. It does have one issue that I am working on, but it might be related to something a previous owner did.

 
SPORTSCAR

SPORTSCAR

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JL92S said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a lift keel and twin rudder option available down the line. Looks like a nice enough boat and a natural successor to the J133 but already looks outdated next to the 10 year old XP44
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It will have to be pretty special to be an all round better boat than a J/133. Only 20 or so of them built in the earlier 2000s but Pintia in Europe and Patriot in Aus and maybe others elsewhere are still kicking high level IRC arse and continuing to surprise visiting competitors with the level of comforts on board. 

Patriot 11-11-18 (10).jpg

 
Alaris

Alaris

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SPORTSCAR said:
It will have to be pretty special to be an all round better boat than a J/133. Only 20 or so of them built in the earlier 2000s but Pintia in Europe and Patriot in Aus and maybe others elsewhere are still kicking high level IRC arse and continuing to surprise visiting competitors with the level of comforts on board. 

View attachment 453002
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Not really the same use case. The marketing materials call it a cruising boat. 

 
D

ds797

Member
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UK Poole, Solent
SPORTSCAR said:
It will have to be pretty special to be an all round better boat than a J/133. Only 20 or so of them built in the earlier 2000s but Pintia in Europe and Patriot in Aus and maybe others elsewhere are still kicking high level IRC arse and continuing to surprise visiting competitors with the level of comforts on board. 

View attachment 453002
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Really only around 20 built??  I thought there were lots more!

Only sailed one once... AWESOME :)

 
J

JL92S

Super Anarchist
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UK
SPORTSCAR said:
It will have to be pretty special to be an all round better boat than a J/133. Only 20 or so of them built in the earlier 2000s but Pintia in Europe and Patriot in Aus and maybe others elsewhere are still kicking high level IRC arse and continuing to surprise visiting competitors with the level of comforts on board. 

View attachment 453002
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The J133 is still a great boat. I suspect the majority of J45s will be cruised more than J133s. Sadly there isn’t really a market for brand new boats like the J133 anymore, especially in Europe. J Composites had to do something to move with the times and that was the J122E and the J112E. It’s nice to see something brand new that sees them trying to continue competing with the likes of X Yachts and Grand Soleil in the luxury performance cruising market although it’s a tough class of boat. My guess is it will still appeal to J Boat owners trading up from smaller boats and stop them moving to something like an X4^3 or X4^6 instead

 
Crash

Crash

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jackolantern said:
J/45: more expensive, heavier, less righting moment, less sail area, slower than an Xp44
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Hey Jack,

Where'd you get your numbers from?  If compare data from manufacturer's sites I get:

J/45 100% Upwind SA: 1303 sqft      Xp 44: Mainsail area (carbon rig) at 691 sqft and 106% jib at 508 sqft which equals 1199 sqft, and that not 100% either.  Sailboatdata lists the X's sail area aat 1140 sqft which I'm guessing is the 100% number.  Meanwhile I get downwind SA as 1938sqft for the J and 1830 sqft for the X.  The J also has a longer LWL at 41.2ft vs 39.0 ft, and J's has a slightly better SA/Disp ratio (25.85 to 25.65 )so not sure the X is faster either...

Of course, the X has been out there since 2018 and the J has just been launched, so numbers may not be exactly accurate yet...

 
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Crash

Crash

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eastern motors said:
SA/D over 25 seems pretty high for cruising boats.  
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For a given rig, you can always reduce sail area, but it hard to add it...

Plus newer boats like the X and J, with their bulbed keels and lower vcg can carry greater sail area than any older cruiser with a moderate fin and no bulb ever could....

 
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