J/80 jib halyard tension

[Rob]

I run a 3Di raw jib on my J/80. I find it hard to maintain and fine tune halyard tension with the mast mounted cleats. I use the coach top winch but the tension is gone once the cleats are locked.

Anyone have alternate solutions?

Does not have to be class legal but don’t mind if it is.

Thanks

 

[longy]

Moving tension from winch to cleat/jammer will ALWAYS result in change of tension. The jammer requires some movement of the halyard to engage. Options: leave halyard on winch, over tension slightly before changing to jammer, install some sort of tackle on halyard tail that can be adjusted & cleated without change. J24's used Harken magic boxes for a while until ruled illegal, then they went to jib cunningham tackles led down side decks, which became the standard fit out

 

[The Q]

I've not been near a j80.
But on a class I sailed we added a couple of rope clutches between the exit of the mast and the turning block , tension on, flip the lever, no slip , no relaxation of tension.
I've seen the block and tackle to an eye on the halyard too.

 

[Marty Gingras]

I run a 3Di raw jib on my J/80. I find it hard to maintain and fine tune halyard tension with the mast mounted cleats. I use the coach top winch but the tension is gone once the cleats are locked.

What kind of cleats?

 

[Rob]

What kind of cleats?

Regular ronstan Aluminium cam cleats

Alloy Cam Cleat | Ronstan Sailboat Hardware World

Ronstan offers a full range of yacht and dinghy sailing products including blocks, sheaves, travellers, furlers, rope cleats, stainless steel fittings, sheet and halyard winches and much more.

www.ronstan.com

 

[Rob]

We do run block and tackle on our J/70, but it’s hardly to be considered a “simple”, clean solution.
Guess I can cut it and do that though

 

[Marty Gingras]

What kind of cleats?

Regular ronstan Aluminium cam cleats

Hmmm. You might throw in Harken. I don't think of Harken as losing much when engaging (as long as they are lead fair) and you'll easily find some other use for them if they aren't an improvement.

 

[longy]

They will all lose a bit of tension as the jaws rotate into the halyard

 

[Gouvernail]

We have a nice dark mark inntge halyard by tge mast cleat.
Our jib tension changes are tighten it about a half inch or loosen some specified amount.

Generally the adjustment is accomplished during a tack or a quick rehearse and tr-trim or between races.

Being exact is not an issue as the wind varies constantly and all we are ever doing is trying to make the sail trim a little better.

Sometimes we re-set it on every tack for an entire race and sometimes we don’t touch it all day.

 

[Tylo]

What if you rig a high-purchase cunningham for the jib? From my thinking (although I could be wrong), the purchase would:

• Keep it from needing to be winched (but maybe this is a non-issue on a J/80)
• Give a lot more precision in the adjustment
• Any length lost due to the jaws of the cleat turning as they "grab" the line would be reduced by the purchase, making it less of a problem

I have a jib boom on my boat and will probably be rigging up a jib cunningham like that, both for luff tension but also to move the entire sail up and down relative to the boom/tack point to control twist.

 

[VeloceSailing]

I solved the issue with a clutch on my J80, however I like the idea of a cunningham.

 

[Jambalaya]

As you are not worried about class rules you have more choices. In no particular order.

Replace the halyard cleat (worn ?) and/or add a second (if halyard is old it may not grip cleat well)
Try an extra layer of outer material on the halyard where it sits in the cleat
Add a clutch
Change halyard winch for a self tailer and keep halyard on winch
Change jib halyard for a 2:1 system thus reducing load on cleat
Change halyard if worn or end to end it.
Add a jib cunningham lead aft OR extra purchase on halyard, one boat I have sailed on has an eye spliced into the halyard after it exits mast to which a purchase cascade is added after hoist (will try and get a photo)

As you are worried about about slippage I would add a numbered calibration ruler / sticker and mark halyard so you can see what slippage there is

Interesting you have slippage on jib, I always found on various boats the main halyards have slipped more due to higher loads.

 

[Jambalaya]

I don't have a photo but owner sent me a sketch of jib fine tune lead to cleats port and starboard 16:1 tune inc 2:1 halyard. This is on a Surprise (26ft) on Lake Geneva with overlapping genoa. It's really lovely to use and can be trimmed from the rail. A small eye is spliced into halyard and then fine tune attached via a ball pushed into eye. Owner has learnt all the rope work / soft shackle stuff so all done in house.

This would be your Rolls Royce solution

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

If you don't care about it being class legal, change your cabin top winch to a self tailer and be done with it.

 

[Jambalaya]

If you don't care about it being class legal, change your cabin top winch to a self tailer and be done with it.

Definitely an option but not the cheapest solution I think. I do wonder whether halyard is old and crushed / outer knackered where it goes in cleat. Cleat old too ? A 2.1 halyard is fairly cheap and on a small boat like 80 can be tensioned by hand ?

 

[longy]

A jib cunningham system like the J24's use is very simple, cheap, and you raise/lower your sail normally

 

[Jambalaya]

A jib cunningham system like the J24's use is very simple, cheap, and you raise/lower your sail normally

My concern with this is the more you pull on the jib cunningham the more the halyard will slip. I think there is a problem with the existing halyard and cleat. I think you'd have to do both things to fix the issue and get more tune-ability

 

[longy]

It is possible the cleat is slipping - but the jib c/ham set up has enuff travel to account for that. Racing 24's it was quite simple. The tackle was set up so that each side would extend to a stopper knot in the tail. Downwind, cast off both sides (if you had the time, hand extend purchase) At the mark, pull the halyard up snug & make sure it was firmly cleated. All further adjustment done by rail crew.

 

[Just A Skosh]

Mount a cam cleat to the forward bulkhead, remove the ones on the mast.
Halyard goes from the mast to the winch, then to the cleat. Stops slipping and makes it easy to adjust. Pretty sure that's the standard arrangement.
For reference: https://westcoastsailing.smugmug.com/One-Design-Photos/J80/J80-888/i-LZmmPqP/A

 

[Jambalaya]

Mount a cam cleat to the forward bulkhead, remove the ones on the mast.
Halyard goes from the mast to the winch, then to the cleat. Stops slipping and makes it easy to adjust. Pretty sure that's the standard arrangement.
For reference: https://westcoastsailing.smugmug.com/One-Design-Photos/J80/J80-888/i-LZmmPqP/A

So this basically ?