dreamingwet
Member
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- 76
the 112e in NY is 400K, up there for grabs
J109 Vs J112e Vs J111
- Thread starter Movable Ballast
- Start date
Old Pirate
New member
- 25
- 12
West coast: http://www.sailcal.com/boats-for-sale/2021-j-boats-j-112e-alameda-california-7980101/
Huge price reduction, down from $459K. Sailing on this boat was what convinced me the J/112e was the right boat but this one wasn't in the budget.
Huge price reduction, down from $459K. Sailing on this boat was what convinced me the J/112e was the right boat but this one wasn't in the budget.
dreamingwet
Member
- 245
- 76
Just wait a few months, and will drop 100K... 
danstanford
Anarchist
Nope, I will have bought it before then!!!Just wait a few months, and will drop 100K...
dreamingwet
Member
- 245
- 76
Just my 2centsNope, I will have bought it before then!!!
I would pay a broker a few $ to tell you how much a Sep 2021 112e sold for a little less than 2 months ago with all B&G H5000, 2 chart plotters and autopilot, a full North 3Di race inventory that was delivered in September-October 2021 and was in the dry since then.
With the market uncertainties this is becoming a buyers market very quickly, look at the "HUGE" price reduction boats. This specific boat was $450k, same as a 2018-20 J121!? at the beginning of the summer, then $400, now this new guy is calling "Huge" a ~20K drop. That is not a HUGE drop in my book, the broker is getting what 20% commission?
The broker and owner can easily cover the 20K.
Jambalaya
Super Anarchist
UK brokers make 4-8% commission
Boat prices spiked up 20-30% over the pandemic. Given inflation hitting everyone inc costs of owning a boat I would agree that used prices have to fall and probably to below pre Covid levels. I have been looking around and a few nicely presented bots inc my old J105 (now 20yrs old) have sold within days if priced correctly
Boat prices spiked up 20-30% over the pandemic. Given inflation hitting everyone inc costs of owning a boat I would agree that used prices have to fall and probably to below pre Covid levels. I have been looking around and a few nicely presented bots inc my old J105 (now 20yrs old) have sold within days if priced correctly
Old Pirate
New member
- 25
- 12
CA brokers don't make 20% commission. At $389K the owner is taking a significant loss on a basically new boat. The market looks like it is correcting quickly from the pandemic run-up, glad we got the old boat sold when we did to make room for the new one.
It depends what you are looking for. Boats you could credibly race 2H offshore are selling well, anything designed for crewed racing that isn't a Cape 31 is sticking - look at the number of well-looked after 36-40ft Ker and Corby designs on the market sub £100k.
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danstanford
Anarchist
Since I am head over heels in love with the J/112e, kind of in love with the J/99, and have always coveted a J/111, I have been watching some of the larger offshore races for both entries and results. Why are there no J/112e's competing in these races? I see J/99's doing well in some instances and of course the results would be skewed by the skills of the teams, but why no 112's?
Why spend the extra scratch on the 112 if you’re going to go racing when the 111 is the better racing boat?
Also, how many have even been built? Have to assume it’s always going to be a much smaller number than either 99s or 111s.
danstanford
Anarchist
Fair enough on both points but I think the pricing is pretty close between those two boats. For sure the 99 is cheaper.
Roleur
Super Anarchist
A good used J/111 could be less than half the price of a used J/112e and also less than a J/99.
J/112e is positioned as a windward/leeward cruiser/racer with great rating, so people buy them to either cruise & race at the local club or to win the ORC Worlds.
J/99 is positioned as an offshore racer, either doublehanded or fully crewed, so most people buy them with a pretty serious race program in mind.
That said, I would have no problem taking the J/112e offshore and I think it can perform really well, especially in areas with less wind like Scandinavia or the Med.
J/111 started out as a OD racer, but turned out to be a pretty versatile boat. Twice the fun compared to the other two, but Moree demanding and harder to race to its rating.
danstanford
Anarchist
I can agree if no consideration is given to age. I was referring to the cost new and I think the depreciation rates would be similar as all have been successful designs.
- Admin
- #55
I am getting ready to move on from my Ericson 35, and am starting to consider a replacement. The 109 is appealing on a number of fronts, the 111 even more so. Prices on 111's have jacked with little availability, and 109's seem to be in low supply at around 135k. We want to be competitive (no, we want to win) and have a boat that is comfortable to weekend on. Any additional thoughts?
pqbon
Anarchist
I think the J111 would crush in SoCal. It really can be a light wind weapon. Get an A1.5 and a C0 if you are sailing anything other than W/L.
- Admin
- #57
i know the 111 is a better boat, but I'll be on a tight budget and by all accounts, the 109 is very good under all rating systems. I know they are pretty tame, but compared to my 35, it'll seem like a tp 52...
There is a phrf shit show regarding od kites and phrf max kites on 111's. in typical fashion, the three idiots running phrf san diego have bungled the entire thing... More later.
There is a phrf shit show regarding od kites and phrf max kites on 111's. in typical fashion, the three idiots running phrf san diego have bungled the entire thing... More later.
steele
Super Anarchist
They made enough 109s that if you are patient a west coast one will become available. You can also check with the class website.
Another option is a C&C 110. Same prices, age, length, and racer cruiser design brief. Here is a local one with a carbon rig, https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2002-c$c-110-8476359/. I have no idea how they rate.
Another option is a C&C 110. Same prices, age, length, and racer cruiser design brief. Here is a local one with a carbon rig, https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2002-c$c-110-8476359/. I have no idea how they rate.
Monkey
Super Anarchist
- 11,253
- 2,870
I can’t see how you’d go wrong. To this day, my favorite silly feature on the 109 is that removable locker at the stern. Its so simple, but brilliant for a boat that goes racing and cruising.
psycho tiller
Anarchist
In my opinion (and not necessarily the managements) based on extensive first hand experience with the 109, but admittedly limited actual experience with the 111 other than coming close to buying one a while back:
-The 109 can be a little sticky in light wind, and especially compared to the 111.
-The 109 is a better weekend cruiser than the 111, especially if there's a significant other you want to sleep next to in the aft berth.
-If you value high performance more than cruising get the 111, if you value cruising more get the 109.
-The 111 has a bit of a reputation for being hard to sail to it's rating but there's plenty of people who've done well in phrf who would probably argue against that.
-If winning in a phrf fleet is a really high priority the 109 might be a safer bet, even in a lighter wind location despite being a little sticky. To me the 111 phrf of 36 seems like a lot of ground to make up in light air since a Ferrari and a Honda both go the same speed in a parking lot. I could be wrong though, maybe a 111 owner can chime in on light air phrf performance.
-Don't overthink it, the decision is actually very simple. Just get both!
