I posted weeks ago that I was selling my J36 and looking at a J105. Well that deal fell through and now am considering new sails for the J36 for next season. In an effort to make it slightly more family friendly I am considering 1. A #1 genoa cut for the furler and/or a main with sail slugs and Lazy Jacks. So a few questions. What kind of performance issues should I expect by using a jib cut for the furler and a main made with sail slugs? Any at all , marginal or great? Keep in mind that I am relatively new at racing and consistently in the back half of the fleet so there is probably a million other things that I could be doing to improve my performance. Lastly if I am only able to afford one new sail, which one should I consider. Both my existing sails are equally worn out, both about 8 years old. Fractional rig on a J36. Would I benefit more from a new MAin? Thoughts?
Jib or Main?
- Thread starter wbrent
- Start date
[email protected]
Member
If you can only get one I would say on a frac. rig get the main. slugs shouldent hurt you.
jerseyguy
Super Anarchist
Agreed to which sail to replace. I had both a bolt rope and a slugged main on my Pearson Flyer. If there was a performance difference my crew and I could not tell the difference. We sure could tell the difference between a 4 year old bolt rope main and a brand new one with slugs.
kmcfast
Anarchist
The Jib is the most important sail on a frac rig.
Jibs can produce up to 90% of the total sailplan drive on fracs.
Put your best trimmer on the jib......
Jibs can produce up to 90% of the total sailplan drive on fracs.
Put your best trimmer on the jib......
I agree, an old jib with the draft to far back and leach curl will kill your performance
If you choose the main with the slugs, thing about how you will keep the slugs in the mast when lowering the sail if your boat doesn't already have a means built-in for doing so. I think plates that cover the exit and allow the slugs to pass work better than the screw in stopper method.
Jackdaw
Super Anarchist
If they are both shot, they both have to go. This is like a runner buying one new shoe.
If you go all-in, get a Tides strong track for the main.
If you go all-in, get a Tides strong track for the main.
Soley
Super Anarchist
If you can only go for one it has to be the jib. The shape of the jib is critical to good performance, an older main can hang in the for another season.
The thing about a jib cut for a roller furler, is that the foot will be a lot higher off the deck. The sail will also generally not be a full 155% number one cut but more of a small is number two, say around 125%. So you will lose power in lighter breeze compared to you current number one.
Also a big thing with roller furling jib are that they have a padded area or a fat piece of rope stitched onto the sail just behind the luff so that it furls properly. This is detrimental to the flow over your sail. So it does hurt your performance. But if you need to sail with the sail furled, then you must have the padded area or the fat rope added. Also remember that furler sails are over built as they need to accommodate higher wind strengths in a partially furled mode, so if you sail in a lighter breeze area it will make sailing tough for you.
It is all a compromise. What ever you buy, make sure that your rating is adjusted next season to take into account the differences in your sail configuration. A furled jib will be much smaller than your current number one and there is no point carrying around that penalty if you don't have to...
The thing about a jib cut for a roller furler, is that the foot will be a lot higher off the deck. The sail will also generally not be a full 155% number one cut but more of a small is number two, say around 125%. So you will lose power in lighter breeze compared to you current number one.
Also a big thing with roller furling jib are that they have a padded area or a fat piece of rope stitched onto the sail just behind the luff so that it furls properly. This is detrimental to the flow over your sail. So it does hurt your performance. But if you need to sail with the sail furled, then you must have the padded area or the fat rope added. Also remember that furler sails are over built as they need to accommodate higher wind strengths in a partially furled mode, so if you sail in a lighter breeze area it will make sailing tough for you.
It is all a compromise. What ever you buy, make sure that your rating is adjusted next season to take into account the differences in your sail configuration. A furled jib will be much smaller than your current number one and there is no point carrying around that penalty if you don't have to...
floating dutchman
Super Anarchist
If you can afford a new main spend the $$$ on the main. A new head sail will improve the performance of the boat more and will cost less.
Keep sailing and learning and when you have the $$$ for a new headsail you hopefully have a better idea on what headsail will do what you want it to do and the main will still be in good shape, mains tend to last longer than headsails.
I know this sounds a bit ass about face but think "next season".
Keep sailing and learning and when you have the $$$ for a new headsail you hopefully have a better idea on what headsail will do what you want it to do and the main will still be in good shape, mains tend to last longer than headsails.
I know this sounds a bit ass about face but think "next season".
Blackadder
Member
I assume you already have the furler, but if its the harken type you can remove the drum quickly and race with the foil and a full size genoa. I agree abiut the headsail being most important, how about having your current #1 recut for a furler and getting a new full size race #1 and removing the drum for racing ?
bluelaser2
Member
slugs won't hurt at all. you probably could skip the lazy jacks since the slugs hold the sail on the boat at least while it gets flaked. If you can only afford one sail get the number one genny on a furler- and see if the main can be recut - a new boltrope often helps, plus some punching up of the inboard batten ends often can get enough shape back in it to peform well with a new headsail.
Do a Luff re-cut on the old main and add slides, extend the leech battens past the current hinge point(if it has any) and do any seam changes needed and buy a new headsail.. The best of both worlds to a degree. That would be the best bang for buck if you are Back/mid fleet.
Don't try cut a non-roller furling headsail down to a furling headsail.. It wasn't designed that way.. Fine if you are just cruising around, but not if you want to try and race at all.
Can I ask why some of you guys have said a Roller Furling headsail wont be full size? You can build it to what ever you want.. But he should get a credit as the LL will be shorter and the area will be slightly smaller if you are restricted on Foot/LP length
Don't try cut a non-roller furling headsail down to a furling headsail.. It wasn't designed that way.. Fine if you are just cruising around, but not if you want to try and race at all.
Can I ask why some of you guys have said a Roller Furling headsail wont be full size? You can build it to what ever you want.. But he should get a credit as the LL will be shorter and the area will be slightly smaller if you are restricted on Foot/LP length
[email protected]
Member
Guys on a frac rig the main is the biggest get the main. And I agree the slugs will make mainsail take downs easy. I flake a 777 squire foot main three times a week with a CST. No slugs at all Two people in light air. of course in more wind it takes three or four. but less people is better.
knobblyoldjimbo
Super Anarchist
Get your main converted to slugs, this'll do two things:
i) make it easier to rig and reef
ii) make it better shaped - why - because the old bolt rope is likely to have shrunk making the main really hard to get a nice shape in so either extending it or slugging it will make a huge difference to it.
I agree with the new heady, I was lucky, my original genoa simply delaminated and was worthless so I bought a new Tasker genoa - with the altered main (had a foot more bolt rope spliced in) we (me and the kids) won our first Nationals.
KO
i) make it easier to rig and reef
ii) make it better shaped - why - because the old bolt rope is likely to have shrunk making the main really hard to get a nice shape in so either extending it or slugging it will make a huge difference to it.
I agree with the new heady, I was lucky, my original genoa simply delaminated and was worthless so I bought a new Tasker genoa - with the altered main (had a foot more bolt rope spliced in) we (me and the kids) won our first Nationals.
KO
If the reason for choosing jib OR main is money, consider going less expensive and trying as much as possible to do both. If you are a new racer dacron sails are as good as laminates. Think also about eliminating options, especially ones that can be easily added later. Conventional battens (cheaper), no class logo, even no sail numbers (you can easily add later yourself), depending on where you sail and how you use your boat maybe one reef instead of 2, etc. It pains me to say this, but even consider shopping for sails by price and using one of the "less premium" sail lofts (still check for references).
For a roller furling jib, you can go to a full size #1 but many sailmakers will recommend going smaller. I think there could be problems with your jib lead positions with a rf 150. The smaller jib will furl easier (family friendly). It will have better shape when reefed than the bigger sail, still not great but it will get you around the course. It will also be more family friendly when tacking. I suspect you are racing phrf, so see if you can go down a size and take the time credit if it is available to you. Otherwise go with the sailmaker's recommendations (maybe not available from the budget or online lofts though).
+1 for Tides, but can be retrofitted later.
In the category of planning for the future, hold off on the lazy jacks. Add them next season. It has no impact on your sail choices but will save you money this year to put towards getting 2 sails instead of 1. With captive slugs you may even decide not to get them. When it does come time for that decision, I also recommend a Dutchman system instead of lazy jacks, much more family friendly but more expensive. It can be retrofitted by a sailmaker. No noticeable impact on performance. Just this one recommendation could spin off a whole new thread.
I also recommend the tides system, it is really good but it can be retrofitted later too.
If you still can only go for one or another, +1 for main. Like it is recommended above, it is up every race for the entire race in all wind conditions. Plus they tend to last longer.
dolphinmaster
Super Anarchist
Call Mastheadsailinggear.com down in St. Petersburg, Fl. they have a ton of used sails and can give you more options.
jerseyguy
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #20
Thanks folks. The local sail maker (Doyle) is measuring my boat this week for both MAin and Jib and will get me quotes. Right now I am leaning towards a new Dacron Main. My existing main I think is worse than my genoa, and was not even made for my boat. Its a good 6 inches short along the foot. Also we've torn it twice this past month along the leach just from flaking it on the boom. So I think its had it. The jib may have to wait and I think it can. But maybe there will be some incentive to buy both at the same time. I'll wait for the quotes. Glad to hear sail slugs shouldn't be an issue. Thanks for the replies.
