Jobson Nails It!

[Sisu3360]

We have a small club in a small Midwestern city. While our fleet has contracted overall in the past 20 years it's reasonably stable today, and we have been successful recently in making new sailors and boat owners from our partner adult sailing program. We get them through the basics in the classes then out into the racing fleet. The local junior program doesn't actually do much racing, it's more of a summer rec activity. Nevertheless we have a large number of owners under 40, thanks to a casual fleet that caters to past-their-prime PHRF boats run on shoestring budgets.

 

[Glenn McCarthy]

We did this 6-7 years ago. I'm sure that there's a report somewhere in RI.

US Sailing hosted a weekend in Atlanta when Jack Gierhart was the CEO, inviting basically everyone with an interest -community sailing, YCs, for-profit sailing schools, boatbuilders, sailmakers, suppliers, media, etc... A couple of hundred of us sat in a hotel conference room and hashed out a prioritized roadmap with a couple of broad fundamental goals:
1. Engage more people of all ages and backgrounds in learning to sail
2. Develop effective pathways to KEEP more of those people engaged in sailing

And we succeeded in developing what should have been a workable framework for general promotion of sailing, with a pipeline from learn-to-sail onward to incorporating sailing into more people's lifestyles -racing or non-racing.

Best that I can recall, there was one minor US Sailing promotional email about the beginning of a program, then crickets. EVERYONE in the room agreed that this was vital for the future of sailing and should be US Sailing's primary mission.

It takes some resources. Not a lot, but some. $1M over 5 years could go a long way IMHO. No one wants to spend $$ on the fundamental promotion of sailing -i.e. branding sailing as a lifestyle activity and demand generation to feed the adult => sailor pipeline. And we continue to fail miserably at keeping those new youth sailors and college sailors engaged

Exactly how I heard it went down. They didn't allocate any money on the plan you guys wasted your time developing. Shameful.

 

[Tcatman]

That is a cynical post. Also your point is vague.
My point, if you are interested, is that there is a big youth interest in sailing and sailboat racing. It’s not related to college entrance.
Our National authority is, on the other hand promoting an elitist vision of our sport that is self serving and un-sustainable.

Yes, I am cynical about this. Many years of watching everyone conflate Sailing... with Sailboat Racing... Junior programs focused on racing became huge well over 30 years ago and the core of yacht clubs for the past 100 years.... Hobie cat racing was a world wide jugernaut over 40 years ago.. We should see the third generation of these kids on the water today as mid career returning racing sailors IF the racing bug bit... We should also see large numbers of racers returning to the sport from the junior dinghy world and the dramatic growth of college RACING. Sailing and the sales at the Annapolis sailboat show (to pick one) are as popular as ever and boat dealers are not complaining. The concern is sailboat racing as a competitive sustainable sport. Sailboat racing at any level requires a group consensus and yacht clubs (without a primary focus on waterfront restaurants and bars) to promote and educate the skills needed to go sailboat racing. As sunseeker noted.. US Sailing has recognized the trend of recreational sailing is where the money is and does the infrastructure stuff for racing (training judges, RC's, Ratings, Olympics, World Sailing stuff).... which sunseeker diminishes as "very little for racing sailors"... YMMV! We cant solve the problem if we don't define it carefully... The problem is sailboat racing So.. to your point... either the old junior programs were completely off the mark and your new junior programs will pay off 30 years from now... ... OR something else is missing in growing sailboat racing. I think the fubar is the later and US Sailing has no solutions and no one has floated a program that US Sailing should do to solve the racing sailor problem either... I conclude it is a POGO problem.

 

[Glenn McCarthy]

Amen Stonehead. We're all about the glorification of a few sailing gods than the general welfare of our consumers. Why isn't there a national Get Out an Sail Day? Boat owners countrywide could open up the decks to the public for one weekend a year to promote the sailing lifestyle, whatever that means.

There is a Get Out an Sail Day. It's called Summer Sailstice. Check it out.

 

[sunseeker]

Yes, I am cynical about this. Many years of watching everyone conflate Sailing... with Sailboat Racing... Junior programs focused on racing became huge well over 30 years ago and the core of yacht clubs for the past 100 years.... Hobie cat racing was a world wide jugernaut over 40 years ago.. We should see the third generation of these kids on the water today as mid career returning racing sailors IF the racing bug bit... We should also see large numbers of racers returning to the sport from the junior dinghy world and the dramatic growth of college RACING. Sailing and the sales at the Annapolis sailboat show (to pick one) are as popular as ever and boat dealers are not complaining. The concern is sailboat racing as a competitive sustainable sport. Sailboat racing at any level requires a group consensus and yacht clubs (without a primary focus on waterfront restaurants and bars) to promote and educate the skills needed to go sailboat racing. As sunseeker noted.. US Sailing has recognized the trend of recreational sailing is where the money is and does the infrastructure stuff for racing (training judges, RC's, Ratings, Olympics, World Sailing stuff).... which sunseeker diminishes as "very little for racing sailors"... YMMV! We cant solve the problem if we don't define it carefully... The problem is sailboat racing So.. to your point... either the old junior programs were completely off the mark and your new junior programs will pay off 30 years from now... ... OR something else is missing in growing sailboat racing. I think the fubar is the later and US Sailing has no solutions and no one has floated a program that US Sailing should do to solve the racing sailor problem either... I conclude it is a POGO problem.

US Sailing does not lead the way in terms of getting people involved with race admin functions. That all starts at the local with mentors. Eventually some people want/need the various certifications, but don’t confuse that with doing anything at all to expand the volunteer base.

When the governance structure was demolished in favor of the Training junta, that broke the vital link between clubs and classes to each other. Sure have the interweb now, but there’s nothing like being face to face. The AGM’s is where deep social connections were formed. Now, US Sailing is the DMV, no soul.

The problem is that Membership and Training certificates are the primary focus of the organization. Racing is the red headed step child.

The thing is, we do not need US Sailing to do anything. In fact, at this point the best thing they can do is nothing, which they seem to have perfected.

All the improvements the sport needs can and should be done locally.

 

[PeterHuston]

We did this 6-7 years ago. I'm sure that there's a report somewhere in RI.

US Sailing hosted a weekend in Atlanta when Jack Gierhart was the CEO, inviting basically everyone with an interest -community sailing, YCs, for-profit sailing schools, boatbuilders, sailmakers, suppliers, media, etc... A couple of hundred of us sat in a hotel conference room and hashed out a prioritized roadmap with a couple of broad fundamental goals:
1. Engage more people of all ages and backgrounds in learning to sail
2. Develop effective pathways to KEEP more of those people engaged in sailing

And we succeeded in developing what should have been a workable framework for general promotion of sailing, with a pipeline from learn-to-sail onward to incorporating sailing into more people's lifestyles -racing or non-racing.

Best that I can recall, there was one minor US Sailing promotional email about the beginning of a program, then crickets. EVERYONE in the room agreed that this was vital for the future of sailing and should be US Sailing's primary mission.

It takes some resources. Not a lot, but some. $1M over 5 years could go a long way IMHO. No one wants to spend $$ on the fundamental promotion of sailing -i.e. branding sailing as a lifestyle activity and demand generation to feed the adult => sailor pipeline. And we continue to fail miserably at keeping those new youth sailors and college sailors engaged

I'll see your 6 or 7 years and raise you about 25. I forget the exact year, '91 or '92 I think, I got a call from then ExDir John Bonds. He had gotten a grant from Sail America to put together a weekend think tank on how to "Break the Barriers of Entry to the Sport". There were something like 16 of us flown into the O'Hare Hilton. 8 guys from racing, 8 from training. Garry Hoyt, Chip Johns, and a couple of other guys I casually knew were on the racing side. The Training side had a couple of pure assholes. We were no more than 5 minutes into the meeting and one of the guys on the Training side of the table couldn't stop interrupting anyone, and came unglued, stood up and was screaming so loud it looked like he was going to burst a blood vessel. The only thing he had to say was that Racing screwed up the organization and if someone would just give him $50k in less than a year he could double membership. Those of us on the racing side just sort of looked at each other and rolled our eyes. Bonds did a pretty job putting the guy in his place, and he mostly just muttered the rest of the weekend.

We did all the same things that all these commissions have done, created a report, which got distributed. I sent it back to my home club in Buffalo, and I know they read it and probably did a bit with it. Pretty sure my club in Newport Beach didn't even look at it. I'm sure others had the same reaction, but there was no wholesale change.

It's just like the one design survey they did last year. When I was on the Inshore Cmte we did those too, with really pithy metrics attached.

US Sailing actually believes the line "hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help".

How can US Sailing be taken seriously when the President and the CEO have no idea about racing? Why do we have to listen to those two guys about anything?

 

[bluelaser2]

Y'all can spew every theory you wish about why sailing is a dying art.

Something bad happened to the United States around 1980 and it's still not done.

Here it is in simple graph form, and it handily explains everything.

 

[knh555]

Y'all can spew every theory you wish about why sailing is a dying art.

Something bad happened to the United States around 1980 and it's still not done.

Here it is in simple graph form, and it handily explains everything.

View attachment 581696

If this is the ultimate cause of reduced interest in sailboat racing, then I'd think we'd see the same reduction in interest and spend in other upper and upper middle class sports in the US, such as cycling, rock climbing, skiing, and other non-sports activities sailing now competes with including something as simple as what people invest in gaming.

Methinks it's not as simple as these graphs imply.

 

[BrightAyes]

Y'all can spew every theory you wish about why sailing is a dying art.

Something bad happened to the United States around 1980 and it's still not done.

Here it is in simple graph form, and it handily explains everything.

View attachment 581696

Yeah, the bad event that happened was called Ronald Raygun, ZAP! The neocons been bleeding the economy and working folks for decades. Now the got them dumbass morons in Flyover country all hooked on Faux News and oxy. The idiots keep electing loud-mouth extremist who drag down the Amurikan Dream.

 

[dogwatch]

I conclude it is a POGO problem.

Meaning?

 

[knh555]

Yeah, the bad event that happened was called Ronald Raygun, ZAP! The neocons been bleeding the economy and working folks for decades. Now the got them dumbass morons in Flyover country all hooked on Faux News and oxy. The idiots keep electing loud-mouth extremist who drag down the Amurikan Dream.

And therefore sailing is dead. I see.

I don't care about the politics. But this does not qualify as any sort of analysis of the issue at hand here.

 

[dogwatch]

If this is the ultimate cause of reduced interest in sailboat racing, then I'd think we'd see the same reduction in interest and spend in other upper and upper middle class sports in the US, such as cycling, rock climbing, skiing, and other non-sports activities sailing now competes with including something as simple as what people invest in gaming.

Rock climbing is not particularly expensive; the fact that you have to carry your gear up a climb limits the spend. Cycling is dinghy- but not yacht-expensive. Skiing is in fact in decline.

That said, I don't think economic factors are the problem. If there is an oppressed 50%, they were never the sailors anyway.

 

[knh555]

Rock climbing is not particularly expensive; the fact that you have to carry your gear up a climb limits the spend. Cycling is dinghy- but not yacht-expensive. Skiing is in fact in decline.

Point is, there are lots of expensive habits that have grown up these past decades and unfortunately, sailboat racing isn't one of them. Not all of them are sports. Maybe instead of griping about the 1980's we could focus on making sailing an attractive option for people now.

And I know plenty of people who spend quite a bit on climbing going on trips to climbing destinations and maintaining gym memberships. Debating the accounting of different activities misses the point.

 

[dogwatch]

Debating the accounting of different activities misses the point.

Grasshopper, if you think SA discussions are likely to focus on one particular point, such as the point you happen to be personally most interested in, you have a lot to learn. Think instead of a meandering river, which will, with luck, eventually reach the sea.

 

[knh555]

Grasshopper, if you think SA discussions are likely to focus on one particular point, such as the point you happen to be personally most interested in, you have a lot to learn. Think a meandering river, which will, with luck, eventually reach the sea.

I've no problem with meandering. Not too keen on being talked down to, but I suppose I've seen enough of that around here to expect no less.

 

[Marty Gingras]

Maybe instead of griping about the 1980's we could focus on making sailing an attractive option for people now.

Your turn to offer a hypopthesis and prescriptions.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

Skiing is in fact in decline.

Not really, here, thanks to a strong national org with great marketing and branding and lots of industry partnerships with mfrs and mountain owners. Skiing is far more popular in the USA now than in the 80s.

 

[knh555]

Your turn to offer a hypopthesis and prescriptions.

I'm a believer that sailing grows from the ground up at the local level with energetic people. Invite people out sailing. Run a regatta or three. How about running a championship event and making it family-friendly? Do Race Committee or run a mark boat. Start a new fleet. Get juniors out sailing with the adults in established classes instead of just being fenced off among themselves. Invite one of those "pros" to run a clinic, but get the right one. Maybe buy his plane ticket if needed.

I've done all of those things. Taking a break now, but you know, life.

I don't think waiting around for USS to figure it out will ever yield fruit. If they eventually do something right, I'll welcome that.

 

[knh555]

OK. I won't communicate with you again.

OK.

I don't mind the pushback, but I suppose I found "grasshopper" a bit dismissive, which tells me you weren't really interested in communicating anyway.

 

[Marty Gingras]

I'm a believer that sailing grows from the ground up at the local level with energetic people. Invite people out sailing. Run a regatta or three. How about running a championship event and making it family-friendly? Do Race Committee or run a mark boat. Start a new fleet. Get juniors out sailing with the adults in established classes instead of just being fenced off among themselves. Invite one of those "pros" to run a clinic, but get the right one. Maybe buy his plane ticket if needed.

I've done all of those things. Taking a break now, but you know, life.

I don't think waiting around for USS to figure it out will ever yield fruit. If they eventually do something right, I'll welcome that.

Agreed that a bottom-up approach is necessary. This is not rocket science. Identify under-represented groups and do what you can to recruit them. Do what you can to make more professionals not less, because that'll start a pipeline. Better retention would be good, but recruitment is where the real gains can be made. It will never again be like the '80s, so have realistic expectations.