Just Another High School Shooting

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

Let me first say, prayers and thoughts to the victims of this horrendous crime lest I be labeled insensitive so shortly after the bodies are still warm.

Ok, now that is behind us, there was school violence, including guns.  But Columbine was the turning point.  Mass killings.  20 plus killed with military grade weapons, rapid fire handguns and large capacity magazines.  The slide has been towards the loose access to these weapons and a cult like following that these weapons are equalizers.  You are bullied, get a gun.  You are crazy, get a gun.  You are scared, get a gun.   The gun is the solution, not the problem.  So it may not be the gun (although, assault weapons were not available when I was in school) its the attitude that guns are the equalizer.

Spot on Specious - I can absolutely agree with this sentiment.  It begs the question, then - how do we change that attitude?  Why isn't that question the focus of the discussion? 

 

[Guest]

the threatening behavior combined with the presence of the gun reasonably induced fear which resulted in the finding of guilt.

What part of the phrase "combined with" did you not understand???

Simply open carrying and minding your own business is not brandishing. 

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

http:///stories/2017/sep/14/freeman-shooter-got-gun-from-fathers-safe-shot-vic/

Two big things jump out of that article: 1) The kid had the combo to the gun safe - big no-no, IMHO.   2) The kid was bullied, ID'd as suicidal - how did the school/parents react?  What did they do to intervene?   

 

[Blue Crab]

Registration does not equal confiscation.  I just don't see that happening.

Either way, I just don't see the crazies/criminals registering their weapons. Let's go directly at the actual problem for a change. With 330 million, there will always be some crazies. But we could take out the gangs. Let's do that first. That would be a good start at actual homeland security.

 

[Guest]

http:///stories/2017/sep/14/freeman-shooter-got-gun-from-fathers-safe-shot-vic/

Two big things jump out of that article: 1) The kid had the combo to the gun safe - big no-no, IMHO.   2) The kid was bullied, ID'd as suicidal - how did the school/parents react?  What did they do to intervene?   

No no no.  Those contributors are irrelevant to the narrative that if there were no guns in the US, there would by definition be no violence.  Everybody would sing kumbaya and have a big old fashioned LOVE IN.

 

[Blue Crab]

Tech prob: cue "I'd like to buy the world a Coke."

 

[Spatial Ed]

Spot on Specious - I can absolutely agree with this sentiment.  It begs the question, then - how do we change that attitude?  Why isn't that question the focus of the discussion? 

It certainly  can be, but why does everything else need to be tried before we register the guns?  It can be done simultaneously.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

It's interesting to note not one mention of concern for the people impacted by this needless tragedy, ya bunch of callous cunts.  

Ahem. 

My response continues to be take it to GA.

Preferably in a new thread, not the one honestly entitled "Gun Control" which is about this shooting.

But if we're going to express concern for the victims of gun violence, we should really focus on suicides, not rare incidents like the topic one.

Whether it's common suicides or rare, convenient shootings, I suspect we all agree that it's generally bad when people get shot or shoot themselves. We feel sorry for those affected. But I don't see how that concern shared by all is political. Except, of course, to exploit convenient shootings to push what the GA thread honestly said it was pushing.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

doubleclick

 

[Battlecheese]

What part of the phrase "combined with" did you not understand???

Simply open carrying and minding your own business is not brandishing. 

whoosh. Not so hot on reading either I guess.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Brandishing and walking around with a weapon are very different things.

In fact, you are wrong. Not that this is a surprise.

I was discussing the historical situation, where having a visible weapon was most definitely brandishing.

Not always. Just as we see today in some places (New Jersey has been noted in this thread but there are others), there have always been $pecial people who have had government permission to walk around with weapons.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Am I supposed to NOT think this thread is about Gun Control and not concern for the victims when I go to GA and see this?


Gun control


Really?

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

It certainly  can be, but why does everything else need to be tried before we register the guns?  It can be done simultaneously.

You're right - it could be done simultaneously, but, I question the efficacy of additional gun registration having any impact on the problem we're trying to address.  You do realize that if you buy a gun nowadays at a store, that the transaction is logged?  The last two .22s I bought - WalMart captured the serial #s, and included that information on the record of the sale, after the background check went thru.   How is that record going to be useful in addressing this issue? 

As you proffered - why AREN'T we talking about how to effect those attitude adjustments now, especially given that we all agree that THAT is something that's necessary?  

 

[Bent Sailor]

No no no.  Those contributors are irrelevant to the narrative that if there were no guns in the US, there would by definition be no violence.  Everybody would sing kumbaya and have a big old fashioned LOVE IN.

What an interesting fantasy land you choose live in. No-one is arguing that "no guns = no violence". You beat the tar out of that strawman, Princess. Give it a sound thrashing, let the thumping distract you from your unwholesome urges a little. Then, when you've finished with your therapy, get back to us in the real world pointing to the inarguable fact that first world countries with less guns have less homicide, even when they have the same level of violent crime.

You take care now and try not to break a nail thumping the shit out of this guy.

 

[Spatial Ed]

You're right - it could be done simultaneously, but, I question the efficacy of additional gun registration having any impact on the problem we're trying to address.  You do realize that if you buy a gun nowadays at a store, that the transaction is logged?  The last two .22s I bought - WalMart captured the serial #s, and included that information on the record of the sale, after the background check went thru.   How is that record going to be useful in addressing this issue? 

As you proffered - why AREN'T we talking about how to effect those attitude adjustments now, especially given that we all agree that THAT is something that's necessary?  

Does the government know what guns you own?  Do you have to record to the government the transfer of those guns?  Can the government trace a gun back to you?

That is what registration is.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Two big things jump out of that article: 1) The kid had the combo to the gun safe - big no-no, IMHO.   2) The kid was bullied, ID'd as suicidal - how did the school/parents react?  What did they do to intervene?   

Daddy and mommy should be on the hook for this.  See my strict liability explanation.  No excuse.  

There may well be liability on the school's part.  You can bet your ass that the school district will be a defendant in this, and that they will pay a fortune that will not bring back the dead child.  

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

Does the government know what guns you own?  Do you have to record to the government the transfer of those guns?  Can the government trace a gun back to you?

That is what registration is.

I notice that you chose not to address the other question about addressing attitude changes now - why is that? 

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Does the government know what guns you own?  Do you have to record to the government the transfer of those guns?  Can the government trace a gun back to you?

That is what registration is.

Why have the government do it?  After an incident like this, go to the manufacturer for proof that the gun was properly sold, and find out to whom.  Follow down the chain until you find the person without record of selling it with a sufficient background check.  In this case, it would be the owner, who would then have to show that it was properly secured.  it wasn't.  He is culpable.  

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

Daddy and mommy should be on the hook for this.  See my strict liability explanation.  No excuse.  

There may well be liability on the school's part.  You can bet your ass that the school district will be a defendant in this, and that they will pay a fortune that will not bring back the dead child.  

Given that the kid had the combo to the safe?  Yeah - I'd agree.   While your point is valid w/r/t liability and not bringing back the dead kid, my point was more about an immediate change in how the collective "we" (parents/schools) decide to deal with situations of bullying/suicidal depression.  

Someone who's decided that they are better off dead isn't really going to have much compassion for the ones he plans to leave behind - and I'd think that that degree of desperation warrants immediate intervention, and I'm wondering what happened w/r/t that in this instance. 

 

[Spatial Ed]

Daddy and mommy should be on the hook for this.  See my strict liability explanation.  No excuse.  

There may well be liability on the school's part.  You can bet your ass that the school district will be a defendant in this, and that they will pay a fortune that will not bring back the dead child.  

Without a chain of custody of the gun and an expectation of being held liable for the weapon, you cannot hold the parents responsible.