Just Another High School Shooting

badlatitude

Super Anarchist
27,764
4,014
Why is it incredible?

The only solution for the NRA types is more guns & ammo.
Maybe for some NRA members, but my conversations reveal something more. They want respect, they want the rest of the country to own up to the Second Amendment, they want legitimacy, and they want to resolve the problems on those terms.

Asking to give up 240 years of gun ownership is a huge demand. No one takes terms like that lightly and they shouldn't. Both sides need to look at this differently, that is the step forward they need to make.

 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
65,781
10,901
Great Wet North
Maybe for some NRA members, but my conversations reveal something more. They want respect, they want the rest of the country to own up to the Second Amendment, they want legitimacy, and they want to resolve the problems on those terms.

Asking to give up 240 years of gun ownership is a huge demand. No one takes terms like that lightly and they shouldn't. Both sides need to look at this differently, that is the step forward they need to make.
That just plays into the binary "Total ban or Total freedom" narrative of the gun nutterz.

Their fundamental attitude is that any controls are the thin edge of the wedge. They say different but that's bullshit. That is demonstrated by their consistent rejection of any and all proposals. "I'm in favour of reasonable controls - just not that control or that regulation". Curiously, no proposal is ever quite right.

"My cold dead hands" is their only real attitude.

 
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badlatitude

Super Anarchist
27,764
4,014
That just plays into the binary "Total ban or Total freedom" narrative of the gun nutterz.

Their fundamental attitude is that any controls are the thin edge of the wedge. They say different but that's bullshit. That is demonstrated by their consistent rejection of any and all proposals. "I'm in favour of reasonable controls - just not that control or that regulation". Curiously, no proposal is ever quite right.

"My cold dead hands" is their only real attitude.
I have always subscribed to the review and recalculation of all gun laws both state and federal so that as you travel between states the same laws apply. It would be very hard to do, but we have many people who could approach something like that with great enthusiasm. Obviously, something has to be done with military-grade weapons, which is the hardest hill to climb, but great advances could be made with training and certification which is at the heart of many gun problems.

 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
65,781
10,901
Great Wet North
Make it easier to travel around with your weapons - yeah, that'll help.

Training & certification will make a big dent in the lunatics who shoot up schools & churches.

Might make a dent in the number of little kids who shoot their siblings while playing with dad's 9.

The only thing that will make a great advance is fewer guns.

10's of millions fewer.

Anything else and you're just kidding yourself.

 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,217
283
near Seattle, Wa
Maybe for some NRA members, but my conversations reveal something more. They want respect, they want the rest of the country to own up to the Second Amendment, they want legitimacy, and they want to resolve the problems on those terms.

Asking to give up 240 years of gun ownership is a huge demand. No one takes terms like that lightly and they shouldn't. Both sides need to look at this differently, that is the step forward they need to make.
Beautiful post. Given their terms, as stated, they are dead meat, on each count. Not cuz TeamD, cuz insidious damage via guns and the violent mentality which comes with them.

Outdoor weapons have never worked, and they aren’t working here, now. Right to Carry only makes it worse, as demonstrated by firm research since 2007. Double digits ffs.

As for hearth and home, well, the indoor guns generate the huge problem, suicide, and also femicide. This is what they wish us to respect?

They own that shit. They need to fix it or take their lumps IMO.

 
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G

Guest

Guest
Maybe for some NRA members, but my conversations reveal something more. They want respect, they want the rest of the country to own up to the Second Amendment, they want legitimacy, and they want to resolve the problems on those terms.

Asking to give up 240 years of gun ownership is a huge demand. No one takes terms like that lightly and they shouldn't. Both sides need to look at this differently, that is the step forward they need to make.
Who are you and what have you done with BL??

Seriously though, it would be nice if more of your elk would approach this with this same attitude.  It would go a long way to addressing the problem.  There are a majority of us gun nutterz who are amenable to reasonable limitations and other initiatives.  But the reality is that a majority of the folks on your side of the aisle are mostly more like SlutjohnB above than like you.  

Most of us also strongly believe that the violence issue is not addressed solely through tool control laws, and as such other more holistic measures need to be on the table as well - such as better mental health funding, Anti-cyber bullying, anti-poverty measures and most importantly ending a lot of the drug war shenanigans that are a driver of much of the gun murder out there.  

As to training and cert - while I'm not opposed to it - I fail to see how that is going to address mass shooters or gang shootings.  Do we really want better trained but mentally fucked up HS grads coming back to their old school able to more efficiently kill?  Or gang bangers who can accurately aim at their rivals during a drive by rather than spraying rounds?  Most of the time, the body counts are actually lower than they should be due to poor training and weapon handling by the perps.  Had the aurora fuckwit been better trained, that theater would have been a 'whole nother story.  Just saying.  

 

slatfatf

Super Anarchist
8,679
1,049
Some recently remarked we haven't had a school shooting since last March.

Then, I saw this.  WTF?

School Shooting Drills Have Gone Virtual
The school districts around us have been flailing around how to handle the pandemic and mostly failed at doing anything that made sense. The link describes what happens when you don't accept the reality of what is happening and instead muddle though as if it is a temporary blip and not something that largely removes the possibility of continuing with existing processes for more than a year. If in person education is interrupted for a week, then this could be excused, but not when it should have been obvious to all that a long term plan was needed. 

 

Steam Flyer

Super Anarchist
41,000
7,991
Eastern NC
Some recently remarked we haven't had a school shooting since last March.

Then, I saw this.  WTF?

School Shooting Drills Have Gone Virtual
The school districts around us have been flailing around how to handle the pandemic and mostly failed at doing anything that made sense. The link describes what happens when you don't accept the reality of what is happening and instead muddle though as if it is a temporary blip and not something that largely removes the possibility of continuing with existing processes for more than a year. If in person education is interrupted for a week, then this could be excused, but not when it should have been obvious to all that a long term plan was needed. 
Nobody wanted to admit, back in April, that this pandemic was going to be another year and a half.

It's a two-edged sword. One thing Trump is sort-of correct about, causing panic and overstating the hazard would lead to bad result, and saying "Yeah this plague is going to be a two-year struggle" would have led to a lot of people saying "Fuck that."

Of course, that's what about 40% of people said ANYway, just because that's what they were told by Rush/Fox/etc etc.

What to do about the schools is a big problem, there's conflicting info. But one thing that seems both irrefutable and very sad, learning on the internet is completely inadequate.

- DSK

 

slatfatf

Super Anarchist
8,679
1,049
Nobody wanted to admit, back in April, that this pandemic was going to be another year and a half.

It's a two-edged sword. One thing Trump is sort-of correct about, causing panic and overstating the hazard would lead to bad result, and saying "Yeah this plague is going to be a two-year struggle" would have led to a lot of people saying "Fuck that."

Of course, that's what about 40% of people said ANYway, just because that's what they were told by Rush/Fox/etc etc.

What to do about the schools is a big problem, there's conflicting info. But one thing that seems both irrefutable and very sad, learning on the internet is completely inadequate.

- DSK
I think it can be adequate if approached in a different way. You can't approach it as if you are teaching in person but do it over zoom, that is what we are actually doing. However learning primarily online with good outcomes is entirely possible. It requires a different approach and more engaged parents, but it can work. For the most part, we just did not try to do that.

My son has been learning online and has thrived. The school district we are in was insisting on placing him in an Autism only class where he would have limited contact with neuro typical students. We knew that was the wrong approach and so sought out alternatives, finding one in a a cyber charter school. In the past year he has thrived and gone from being largely non-verbal to reading and writing at grade level and excelling at math where he performs well above grade level while also interacting with other kids and holding conversations. The reason it was successful is that they do not try and translate classroom structure to a zoom equivalent. If they did, he would have fared just as badly as he would with what the school district proposed. 

We chose online out of necessity, but it worked. Then the pandemic happened and made it a necessity for almost everyone. Rather than look at the approaches that have worked as in our case, most school districts decided that replacing classrooms with zoom was all that was needed. That was a failure of imagination, not proof that it can not work. 

 

Steam Flyer

Super Anarchist
41,000
7,991
Eastern NC
I think it can be adequate if approached in a different way. You can't approach it as if you are teaching in person but do it over zoom, that is what we are actually doing. However learning primarily online with good outcomes is entirely possible. It requires a different approach and more engaged parents, but it can work. For the most part, we just did not try to do that.

My son has been learnautomaticalling online and has thrived. The school district we are in was insisting on placing him in an Autism only class where he would have limited contact with neuro typical students. We knew that was the wrong approach and so sought out alternatives, finding one in a a cyber charter school. In the past year he has thrived and gone from being largely non-verbal to reading and writing at grade level and excelling at math where he performs well above grade level while also interacting with other kids and holding conversations. The reason it was successful is that they do not try and translate classroom structure to a zoom equivalent. If they did, he would have fared just as badly as he would with what the school district proposed. 

We chose online out of necessity, but it worked. Then the pandemic happened and made it a necessity for almost everyone. Rather than look at the approaches that have worked as in our case, most school districts decided that replacing classrooms with zoom was all that was needed. That was a failure of imagination, not proof that it can not work. 
Agreed, I apologize for not wording my post above more clearly... I think that use of the internet is an awesome learning tool, and on line classes have great potential. But it's not automagically so, and this past semester of on-line learning is bringing a big shortfall in USAnian student achievement.

I also think that mind and body are more closely linked than we like to think, and physical activity and learning go together.

- DSK

 

slatfatf

Super Anarchist
8,679
1,049
Agreed, I apologize for not wording my post above more clearly... I think that use of the internet is an awesome learning tool, and on line classes have great potential. But it's not automagically so, and this past semester of on-line learning is bringing a big shortfall in USAnian student achievement.

I also think that mind and body are more closely linked than we like to think, and physical activity and learning go together.

- DSK
No apologies, I think we largely agree.

 
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