Just Another High School Shooting

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,218
283
near Seattle, Wa
The topic itself must be political. Or maybe BadLat got lost on the way to GA, where we can all agree that it's terrible to shoot kids.

It's here for some reason or other and "it's terrible to shoot kids" isn't a political topic so it must be some other.

Let's not beat around the bush. The reason is the same as always. It's a convenient shooting with which to push for more gun bans and confiscation programs.
Here we go. Big Tom is the victim, again. A victim of Bad Lat's thread. (And gun extremists are victims of a school shooting in Spokane.) Good ol' Jeffie is fabricating legislation. While Guy stalls like a shitty rudder. YCMTSU. 

 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
65,820
10,913
Great Wet North
 there's indeed a time to rationally discuss why it happened and what to do to prevent future occurrences - minutes/hours after the event, when nobody knows anything?  Such discussions are simply speculative posturing to further a preconceived point, as nobody knows enough about anything at that point to have a rational discussion.  
It happened because of your insane gun culture

Nothing else to discuss.

However I'm sure the gunnies will come back with their usual bullshit rationalizations about "tools" etc. And when all else fails they can always fall back on "Fuck You - 2A"

 
G

Guest

Guest
Registration would stop this.
How?  How would registration have stopped this kid from getting this weapon?

It sounds like if we bothered to pay half as much attention to bullying and mental health issues as we do toolz, this might never have happened.
This continues to really bug me.  Every time something like this happens, registration is always trotted out as the fucking end-all, be-all of our savior from this sort of shit.  

Its such BS!  Registration would not have stopped this anymore than registration would have stopped:

Newtown, Va Tech, Charleston, Aurora, Orlando, Tucson, and on and on.....  

Jeff:  Alex, I'll take gun registration for $1000

Alex Trebek:  The Jeopardy Daily double answer is:  "Zero and Zero"

Jeff:  What is the number of mass shootings that registration would have "prevented"?  And what is the number of mass shootings that went unsolved because of lack of registration?

Alex Trebek:  "Jeff, that is correct.  You have won the daily double and you now lead the game by over $6900.  Congratulations."

 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,218
283
near Seattle, Wa
This continues to really bug me.  Every time something like this happens, registration is always trotted out as the fucking end-all, be-all of our savior from this sort of shit.  

Its such BS!  Registration would not have stopped this anymore than registration would have stopped:

Newtown, Va Tech, Charleston, Aurora, Orlando, Tucson, and on and on.....  

Jeff:  Alex, I'll take gun registration for $1000

Alex Trebek:  The Jeopardy Daily double answer is:  "Zero and Zero"

Jeff:  What is the number of mass shootings that registration would have "prevented"?  And what is the number of mass shootings that went unsolved because of lack of registration?

Alex Trebek:  "Jeff, that is correct.  You have won the daily double and you now lead the game by over $6900.  Congratulations."
Sorry, no magic bullets will happen. Just read Heller II to calm yourself down. 

The court brushed aside the gun lobby’s argument that the registration system was invalid because it would be circumvented by criminals. Stating that the argument made “little sense” and would “invalidate any and all gun laws,”  the court emphasized that “[a]lthough the various registration requirements at issue will not prevent all criminals from obtaining firearms, it surely will prevent some from doing so. That is enough.”

http://smartgunlaws.org/big-second-amendment-victory-district-court-upholds-of-d-c-firearms-registration-law/

 
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A guy in the Chesapeake

Super Anarchist
23,965
1,167
Virginia
It happened because of your insane gun culture

Nothing else to discuss.

However I'm sure the gunnies will come back with their usual bullshit rationalizations about "tools" etc. And when all else fails they can always fall back on "Fuck You - 2A"
I disagree with your premise - this, and the other similar tragedies happened because someone decided to act out in a violent manner.   I will give you that having the gun made it easier for the kid to carry out his violence - the gun didn't make him decide to be violent, the gun didn't cause him to feel whatever disenfranchisement and discontent that drove him to the decision to be violent.  Fuck everyone who wants to apologize for or ignore the people who create the situations that provoke others like this kid to violence, focusing instead on the evil object used to carry out the violence instead of the violent act itself. That attitude is what is responsible for the increasing # of incidents we're seeing - and it will be an exponential exacerbation unless we all individually and collectively intervene to address those behaviors.  

That would actually require many of you to get off your collective asses and do something more than clamor for "another law" - and I suspect that many of you don't want to be bothered enough to intervene and actually do something.  That is the sad thing - my kids know that I've told everyone every where they go to tell me if they aren't behaving properly.  My kids have been taught and understand accountability, how to deal with being told "NO", and how to deal with disappointments.  There are too many who've been taught instead that every unpleasant thing that they experience is someone else's fault, that someone had to intentionally slight them, and that that intentional slight warrants retribution, or have been ignored and not helped to learn how to handle disappointments, and those disappointments grow into resentment and disenfranchisement until they feel like they have no choice but to act out.   

There's no simple "take the guns away and everything will be OK" fix for this.  If there were? I'd cut mine in half on the bandsaw and take 'em to the smelter tomorrow. 

 

warbird

Super Anarchist
16,493
1,269
lake michigan
Seems commonplace to me.

"There have been 142 school shootings in the US since the Sandy Hook shooting in 2012, a near average of one a week, according to data compiled by Mass Shooting Tracker."http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/1/142-school-shootings-sandy-hook-massacre-newtown-c/
If you follow the link you would rethink. I tapped three on the map in the link. A drive by at a carrer center, an altercation in a college parking lot and vandalism¥(shoots fired at an empty building) at a Jr College.jr colllege at mid night. That hardly equates to what we think of as school shootings.

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
59,811
4,560
De Nile
I disagree with your premise - this, and the other similar tragedies happened because someone decided to act out in a violent manner.   I will give you that having the gun made it easier for the kid to carry out his violence - the gun didn't make him decide to be violent, the gun didn't cause him to feel whatever disenfranchisement and discontent that drove him to the decision to be violent.  Fuck everyone who wants to apologize for or ignore the people who create the situations that provoke others like this kid to violence, focusing instead on the evil object used to carry out the violence instead of the violent act itself. That attitude is what is responsible for the increasing # of incidents we're seeing - and it will be an exponential exacerbation unless we all individually and collectively intervene to address those behaviors.  

That would actually require many of you to get off your collective asses and do something more than clamor for "another law" - and I suspect that many of you don't want to be bothered enough to intervene and actually do something.  That is the sad thing - my kids know that I've told everyone every where they go to tell me if they aren't behaving properly.  My kids have been taught and understand accountability, how to deal with being told "NO", and how to deal with disappointments.  There are too many who've been taught instead that every unpleasant thing that they experience is someone else's fault, that someone had to intentionally slight them, and that that intentional slight warrants retribution, or have been ignored and not helped to learn how to handle disappointments, and those disappointments grow into resentment and disenfranchisement until they feel like they have no choice but to act out.   

There's no simple "take the guns away and everything will be OK" fix for this.  If there were? I'd cut mine in half on the bandsaw and take 'em to the smelter tomorrow. 
Other countries have healthcare systems for 1/2 the price of the US system, with better outcomes. 

And other countries don't have nearly the death rate the US has due to murders at schools.

maybe the US could learn some things....

 

badlatitude

Super Anarchist
27,807
4,038
If you follow the link you would rethink. I tapped three on the map in the link. A drive by at a carrer center, an altercation in a college parking lot and vandalism¥(shoots fired at an empty building) at a Jr College.jr colllege at mid night. That hardly equates to what we think of as school shootings.
It was a Washington Times link so I can't attest to their accuracy. Shots fired on a high school, college, or career center certainly would apply I think, I would be personally disturbed if it happened locally. 

 

A guy in the Chesapeake

Super Anarchist
23,965
1,167
Virginia
Other countries have healthcare systems for 1/2 the price of the US system, with better outcomes. 

And other countries don't have nearly the death rate the US has due to murders at schools.

maybe the US could learn some things....
I think that you're right, though I suspect we'd each suggest different examples to embrace. 

 

Spatial Ed

Super Anarchist
39,509
96
This continues to really bug me.  Every time something like this happens, registration is always trotted out as the fucking end-all, be-all of our savior from this sort of shit.  

Its such BS!  Registration would not have stopped this anymore than registration would have stopped:

Newtown, Va Tech, Charleston, Aurora, Orlando, Tucson, and on and on.....  

Jeff:  Alex, I'll take gun registration for $1000

Alex Trebek:  The Jeopardy Daily double answer is:  "Zero and Zero"

Jeff:  What is the number of mass shootings that registration would have "prevented"?  And what is the number of mass shootings that went unsolved because of lack of registration?

Alex Trebek:  "Jeff, that is correct.  You have won the daily double and you now lead the game by over $6900.  Congratulations."
Let me first say that thoughts and prayers to the victims and a request for a cooling off period before turning this into a political fight.  Please show some respect.

ok, now, registration would prevent a crime like this.  Loose guns kill kids.

 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
65,820
10,913
Great Wet North
Other countries have healthcare systems for 1/2 the price of the US system, with better outcomes. 

And other countries don't have nearly the death rate the US has due to murders at schools.

maybe the US could learn some things....
Nahh - the USA is not like other places. :rolleyes:

 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
65,820
10,913
Great Wet North
There's no simple "take the guns away and everything will be OK" fix for this. 
But there IS a simple "reduce the ocean of guns to a sane level and there will be a massive reduction in mass shootings and other gun murders" fix for this.

No two countries and societies could be more similar, but Canada's gun death rate is around 1/4 of the USA and would no doubt be even lower if there wasn't such an easy supply of illegal guns available right across the border.

The stats are decades old and are available in seconds but the gunnies prefer their willful blindness and bullshit excuses because that way their deadly toys remain unaffected.

Lots of "reasonable" arguments but it all comes down to the simple fact that they don't give shit one about hundreds of dead children every year and thousands of dead people every year - their deadly toys are the only thing that really matters.

 

shaggy

Super Anarchist
9,778
979
Co
Read 1/2 this thread and had to share.  This goes deeper than just the school, just the community and just the state that this shit happens in.  Columbine happened before my kid was out of diapers, but he has been trained by the school system to fear hallways and always have a safe place at school.  We are not gun people by any means, but he said when he gets the $$ he is gonna get a handgun.  I asked why on earth?? He explained that since grade school it has been drilled into their heads that they need to have a safe place at school and/or have some protection Mace, pepper spray etc when not in school.. He also said that every new room or building built or renovated since columbine has a cutout by the door so you can lock the door and hide.  Made me think long and hard about the whole damn thing.  The world we live in hu...  

 

warbird

Super Anarchist
16,493
1,269
lake michigan
It was a Washington Times link so I can't attest to their accuracy. Shots fired on a high school, college, or career center certainly would apply I think, I would be personally disturbed if it happened locally. 
I randomly clicked three. None were random shooters letting loose a hail of bullets. Two were altercations. Drive by suggests gang or drug activity with a target. That hardly equate to "School shooting." 

The Times seemed to lump every weapons discharge within 1000 feet (school zone) of a school as a "School Shooting". That is disengenuous at best.

Further, suicide attemps and accidental discharges are also lumped in.

 
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badlatitude

Super Anarchist
27,807
4,038
I randomly clicked three. None were random shooters letting loose a hail of bullets. Two were altercations. Drive by suggests gang or drug activity with a target. That hardly equate to "School shooting." 

The Times seemed to lump every weapons discharge within 1000 feet (school zone) of a school as a "School Shooting". That is disengenuous at best.
What else do you expect from a right wing site? If your kid was at school and there was an altercation in the parking lot that ended in a shooting of any kind, what would you do and how would you feel about it?

 

Blue Crab

benthivore
15,073
2,238
Outer Banks
As a high schooler, I had a shotgun in the back window. Many of us did. Never heard of a school shooting. What's changed is people not weapons. Fix that first.

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
59,811
4,560
De Nile
As a high schooler, I had a shotgun in the back window. Many of us did. Never heard of a school shooting. What's changed is people not weapons. Fix that first.
not really - we've kicked that data around enough. no need to dig back up - there were shootings back then. You just didn't hear about them. Hell, I dated a girl who's brother spent 6 years for an accessory to a double homicide after a botched robbery. 30.06 at close range to the head. Execution style. Rural farm town. Barely any news coverage but folks knew.  The kid was yanked by the cops right out of math class.

Was a challenge on our 2nd date as we "disappeared" for a bit of time, and her parents freaked out - they had had death threats to the family.

 

Spatial Ed

Super Anarchist
39,509
96
As a high schooler, I had a shotgun in the back window. Many of us did. Never heard of a school shooting. What's changed is people not weapons. Fix that first.
Let me first say, prayers and thoughts to the victims of this horrendous crime lest I be labeled insensitive so shortly after the bodies are still warm.

Ok, now that is behind us, there was school violence, including guns.  But Columbine was the turning point.  Mass killings.  20 plus killed with military grade weapons, rapid fire handguns and large capacity magazines.  The slide has been towards the loose access to these weapons and a cult like following that these weapons are equalizers.  You are bullied, get a gun.  You are crazy, get a gun.  You are scared, get a gun.   The gun is the solution, not the problem.  So it may not be the gun (although, assault weapons were not available when I was in school) its the attitude that guns are the equalizer.

 
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