Keel bolt backing plate replacement

Ronn

New member
11
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Uk
The backing plates for my keel bolts are galvanised mild steel, the galvanising is long gone and they are now heavily corroded: they had been covered with a thin layer of fibreglass, it cracked and they got wet.

I’ve previously tried knocking the rust off and coating with rust cure and epoxy, it looked ok for a short time but 4 years down the line the problem is back and a proper job is being considered. A proper job would seem to be replacing them with stainless steel. However this looks like a difficult exercise offering many opportunities to fuck up.

Aside from the usual issues around removing the nuts (they may be galled, they don’t respond to my efforts with a spanner, I’m wary of pulling the bolts out/breaking them etc) and how much to torque them if I ever get to the point of putting them back on again there are problems created by the sheer size of the backing plates. The plates extend either side of the keel area into the bilges, i.e. they have a bit of a curve to them. Most of them require two perfectly positioned holes so that the new plate can be dropped over the bolts (hopefully that won’t involve cutting chunks out of the cabin sole). The bolts are M24. The boat is out of the water with the mast up, I’d imagine replacing one plate at a time.

I gather that later models of the same boat (mine is one of the first) had the more common single-square-backing-plate per bolt. However I haven’t yet been able to find out whether there were other changes that made that a sensible arrangement. There are around 1900 Kg of keel bolted straight through around an inch of glass fibre hull, so I suppose a certain amount of load distribution is required to keep the 2 parts attached. It has hung on for 40 years. The builders went bust a long time ago, the designer passed away a few years ago.

Photos documenting the work done previously are here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/T1fZ5E1oXXYEjxNu2.

As the forum which seems to have people who know what they are talking about I come here to ask: What to do? How to do it?
 

slug zitski

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Hard to say


Steel corrosion under a fastener produces a phenomenon called rust jacking…the steel plate grows thicker then jacks up , over tensions a joint ..over torques the bolt

Give the backer a good whack with a hammer to loosen up …try a bit of penetrating lubricant ..use a well fitting socket and long breaker bar

if the backer plates are in sections …per bolt , or pair of bolts just remove and replace backers one at a time so that you don’t loose the keel

backing plates need one hundred percent surface contact with the substrate …round off the bottom edges then bed into thickened epoxy to avoid stress concentration points around it’s perimeter

typicall keel bolts come off without too much fuss

your project looks doable
 
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slug zitski

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As for using stainless for new backers ..up to you

stainless is very Difficult for home workshop machining

you will go thru plenty of cutting tools

normal steel is easy…keep it painted and it lasts a long time
 

Marty Gingras

Mid-range Anarchist
Steel corrosion under a fastener produces a phenomenon called rust jacking…the steel plate grows thicker then jacks up , over tensions a joint ..over torques the bolt
Aha! I knew there had to be a term for that. Thanks very much.

Also known as oxide jacking, Wikipedia says this:

According to metallurgist Jack Harris, "Oxidation is usually accompanied by a net expansion so that when it occurs in a confined space stresses are generated in the metal component itself or in any surrounding medium such as stone or cement. So much energy is released by oxidation that the stresses generated are of sufficient magnitude to deform or fracture all known materials." Harris, J.E. (1984). "Oxidation induced deformation and fracture". Advances in Fracture Research. Oxford: Pergamon Press: 3791–811. Retrieved October 23, 2022.
 

slug zitski

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Aha! I knew there had to be a term for that. Thanks very much.

Also known as oxide jacking, Wikipedia says this:

According to metallurgist Jack Harris, "Oxidation is usually accompanied by a net expansion so that when it occurs in a confined space stresses are generated in the metal component itself or in any surrounding medium such as stone or cement. So much energy is released by oxidation that the stresses generated are of sufficient magnitude to deform or fracture all known materials." Harris, J.E. (1984). "Oxidation induced deformation and fracture". Advances in Fracture Research. Oxford: Pergamon Press: 3791–811. Retrieved October 23, 2022.
Thats probably the correct term…boat guy slang is rust jacking

even with aluminum ..and this is typically the reason it’s so difficult to break free the fasteners..jacking
 

Will1073

Anarchist
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I wouldn’t be worried about switching to square plates (washers) over the current elongated plates. Having a machine shop source the plate and drill the holes will be money well spent.

The rest of it Slug covered.
 

Raz'r

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Small enough parts that the cost of the material won't be too much, setup and labor will be the cost. Why not titanium?
 

DDW

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For backing plates I'd use K400 Monel. Or 316 SS. I used K400 on my boat (but I have K500 keel bolts and wanted the color to match :)). From the pictures there isn't really much curvature. I'd use flat plates and bed them in thickened epoxy to handle any curve. You are going to want to do that anyway to ensure good contact. 24mm holes are a little tough to drill in a good material unless you have a heavy drill press, a milling machine even better. You may have more luck buying an annular cutter, as is used on magnetic drills, as they work like a hole saw and don't have to shred the entire slug. They need to be rigidly held (a light milling machine works well) but will cut a clean hole quickly without much drama, even in SS if you control the speed to < 60 SFM and use a good cutting oil.

To loosen the nuts you could try an impact wrench but DO NOT let it spin the nut off as that is very conducive to galling. Just get the first 1/4 or 1/2 revolution. Make sure they are well lubricated
 

Zonker

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People suggesting Ti or Monel have to pay for them for the original poster.

316 stainless steel. You can take each plate out, one by one, and match the outline. Go to a scrap yard and find similar size stainless steel. (Hey it may be 304 but that's OK inside a bilge)

Then angle grinder + cut off wheels to cut the outline slightly smaller than the existing steel plates. Once the plates are cut out, take them to a machine shop if you don't have a friend with a drill press and have them drill some 25mm or 1" holes. A bit of slop in the hole is fine for what is essentially an big washer.

An annular cuttter is a good idea for a home drill press.

Bedding in thickened epoxy to conform to any imperfections in the bilge is also a good idea.

M24 nuts were probably applied with a big socket wrench and a pipe slipped over the end. If you have not tried a big pipe + 1/2" or 3/4" socket breaker bar, you probably have not tried hard enough.
 

DDW

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A 1" twist drill in anything but a very heavy drill press is fairly dodgy. Any 1" drill you can afford is a Silver and Deming, having a reduced shank, and is way too long to be rigid. Poking that through SS plate is a tough assignment. The annular cutter will work better, but still needs a pretty rigid setup.

The book torque on a 24mm is something like 400 ft lbs. You can comfortably pull about 50 lbs, so that's an 8' breaker bar. Maybe 4' if you can brace both feet and get your back into it. A good impact will do that, but again only let it do the first 1/2 turn by nursing the trigger. The best way is with a torque multiplying wrench, nice and controlled.
 

robtoujours

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Any reason why keel bolt backing plates/washers always seem to be square with hard corners?

I would think that radiusing the corners would prevent stress concentrations, would hardly be much extra work?

Yet I never see it...
 

slug zitski

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Any reason why keel bolt backing plates/washers always seem to be square with hard corners?

I would think that radiusing the corners would prevent stress concentrations, would hardly be much extra work?

Yet I never see it...
when you inspect a grounding incedent keel joint you see the stress concentration at the backing plate

consider this when you refit

And be certain that the backing plate it perpendicular to the keel bolt , parallel to the nut and washer

this is why bedding into thickened epoxy is a good method
 

robtoujours

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Mine are under flocoat and fg, not intending replacement, but my shroud chainplates were glassed in and I replaced them - originals (inverted T shape) had hard square corners. new ones (316) I rounded the corners off on a flap wheel before installing ...
 

slug zitski

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Mine are under flocoat and fg, not intending replacement, but my shroud chainplates were glassed in and I replaced them - originals (inverted T shape) had hard square corners. new ones (316) I rounded the corners off on a flap wheel before installing ...
Chainplates, stemheads both benefit from epoxy bedding

many times the substrate is irregular …you end up with one bolt doing all the work
 

slug zitski

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paint , assembly , operation , maintence …seems to be a million tricks of the trade

when something leaks or fails prematurely it’s almost always that someone missed a trick

many of this tricks are indeed noted in the technical manual

for instance using locktite as thread lubrication when tapping into metal
or greasing the flywheel ring gear on your diesel to prevent starter engagement tooth erosion
some folks never heard of this …even the diesel engineers you are paying 100 plus per hour

A6A2476A-A70C-40B1-AAEB-935DCCFFF9FE.png
 

MiddayGun

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I would suggest that the curve on the backing plates has more than likely occurred over time.

I see you're UK based, not sure where, but there are plenty of steel cutting services in the UK.
I had these water jet cut from 10mm 316mm stainless.

The set for a 28 foot boat came to around £300 ish.
When you think of the work saved its worth paying.

1670947036496.jpeg


When reinstalling you can bed them on epoxy thickened with cab 'o sil and glass fibres.
This ensures a nice fair fit to the hull, make sure to avoid squeezing epoxy around the bolts though or you'll struggle if you even need to drop the keel.
 

slug zitski

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with keels you first make an accurate template out of wood , then test fit

you would be surprised how many keels don’t have perpendicular keel bolts

your template will tell the story..before cutting heavy steel
 


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