Keep Your Pros on the Dock

[dacapo]

Something about this thread reminds me of the childless people at the school board meeting losing their shit about 'oversexualization' or 'marxist indoctrination' of the children.

true story...................

 

[Will1073]

A new day, a new thread of @BrightAyes complaining about getting buried in the J22 fleet.

 

[Retired BN]

Our club has a few professional sailors and a few former Olympic sailors that race in our club races on a regular basis. This is keel boat racing in mixed PHRF fleets. Do they win a number of the events? Sure. Are they unbeatable? No.

I have always felt that it makes the rest of us at the club better sailors. I haven't been tempted to whine about how hard it is to beat them. I work to compete with them as best I can.

The biggest difference seems to be in consistency. They win a lot, but not always. Still, they are almost always at or near the front of the fleet. They make few mistakes and make consistently good tactical choices. So, if you want to compete with them, you need to get your boat handling skills up to speed and at a minimum, stop making tactical blunders.

Our pros also tend answer questions and share their knowledge with anyone who engages them in discussion, so we all improve.

I have had a blast sailing in Sarnia at the last two Shark regattas you guys have run. It is always fun racing against the Boston's, they are a real asset to the class doing new sail development. Hope Brad is there again this year with his guys, we pushed them to the last race last year.

 

[BrightAyes]

I have had a blast sailing in Sarnia at the last two Shark regattas you guys have run. It is always fun racing against the Boston's, they are a real asset to the class doing new sail development. Hope Brad is there again this year with his guys, we pushed them to the last race last year.

Hot shots and former pros and Olys? Nothing against them. They would now be beyond their prime and working as office Dilberts like the rest of us. Ban them? Hell no. That misses the point being a current working pro is spending ALL his time on the water, racing, etc. That's way different than a former something racing in club regattas as a mere mortal. Stacking the rail with well-paid young guns calling tactics, trimming sailing and getting paid for it is what is wrong.

 

[BrightAyes]

In case you want to see how sailing COULD be or SHOULD be, just look at the Melges 15. Below is link to their just concluded Midwinters. 60+ boats. 120+ competitors. 0 PAID PROS. Instead, you see top-shelf Corinthians, mostly young high school and collegiate sailors coming from the 420. This is top-shelf competitive sailing done in class boats for less than $20K investment. What you don't see are money-grubbing owners in the back with pros whispering what to do. You also see a fair number of women drivers and finishing in top 10. You get people from 12-72 onboard racing. This is sailing as it was and should be again.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

In case you want to see how sailing COULD be or SHOULD be, just look at the Melges 15

Your data smells

1) What do the Melges 15 class rules say?
2) How many pros are in other dinghy classes? Can't say I've ever seen any outside of Moth, olympic, and occasionally 5O5

 

[[email protected]]

Every non-olympic class has the ability to restrict pros in their class rules by vote of its members, and it's a subject that is regularly discussed in many class meetings and proposals. What is this thread about?

its about snowflake old dudes who got stuffed into lockers as kids getting butthurt that they weren't successful enough in life to allow for funding a proper sailing program at the middle and high-ends of the sport...
...
They can cry me a fucking river about pro sailors. if a class wants pro's, that's their choice. don't like it? go race a sunfish or melges 15

 

[Sisu3360]

I'm going to reiterate my brilliant idea to invert the usual arrangement: the pro gets to drive, the owner has to call tactics and the pro can't make their own calls.

 

[Marty Gingras]

I'm going to reiterate my brilliant idea to invert the usual arrangement: the pro gets to drive, the owner has to call tactics and the pro can't make their own calls.

W/o opining on the possible merits, I'll just note that the tactics part is completely impossible to enforce.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm going to reiterate my brilliant idea to invert the usual arrangement: the pro gets to drive, the owner has to call tactics and the pro can't make their own calls.

this is such a colossally dumb idea.

PS- back in the day people would get put in their place for posting nonsense like this

i sure do miss the old SA. <sigh>

 

[Marty Gingras]

Hot shots and former pros and Olys? Nothing against them. They would now be beyond their prime and working as office Dilberts like the rest of us.

That kind of puts the lie to the notion that they were ever superhumans. Once an immortal aways an immortal amirite?

 

[Sisu3360]

W/o opining on the possible merits, I'll just note that the tactics part is completely impossible to enforce.

It's a tongue in cheek suggestion to dramatically increase the chaos on the water.

 

[Marty Gingras]

It's a tongue in cheek suggestion to dramatically increase the chaos on the water.

I'm literal at this hour of the morning.

 

[Will1073]

What if the pros need to have a minimum blood alcohol level?

 

[eliboat]

I don’t know. I’ve never really seen “pros” as pros really. Sure they spend their time sailing and are very good, but one of the many reasons that I love competitive sailboat racing is that I can compete head to head against actual heroes of mine from when I was younger as well as current top sailors in the world. There are plenty of “pros” that I don’t even see as that good! I don’t know of any other sport that is the same. The flip side of that is that the top Corinthian sailors in our sport are every bit as good as the “pros”. That’s a special characteristic of our sport. Also, while it definitely helps owners to have a solid tactician on board, rarely is a pro good enough to overcome a terrible skipper and/or crew. They can make up for a lot, but in the end, the folks you see with pros at the top of the results are usually quite solid in their own right. There are definitely exceptions.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

i sure do miss the old SA. <sigh>

be the change you wanna be

 

[MR.CLEAN]

The flip side of that is that the top Corinthian sailors in our sport are every bit as good as the “pros”.

The results beg to differ.

 

[JohnMB]

Stacking the rail with well-paid young guns calling tactics, trimming sailing and getting paid for it is what is wrong.

Still truly not clear what exactly you think is wrong with it, is it just that you don't want them in the class/classes you race in?

There's no problem with preferring not to sail against pros, but its really not that difficult to find a class where you don't have to. You even point out the Melges 15 as an example.

Can you clarify exactly what you are whining about here.

 

[knh555]

What if the pros need to have a minimum blood alcohol level?

For some, that may boost performance.

 

[Will1073]

For some, that may boost performance.

I know it helps me