Kelo v. City of New London,

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
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Punta Gorda FL
So, SCOTUS is making mistakes?
It has happened before, for example, in the topic case.

Governor Newsom even admitted (through his actions, if not his words) that Justice Thomas was right that "urban renewal" means "negro removal" if the balance of "public use" is to be determined by property tax collections. He was able to figure out that Thomas was right and the majority made a mistake.

At least, that's how I see it. Do you think the topic case was decided correctly, or did they make a mistake?
 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
62,307
5,505
De Nile
It has happened before, for example, in the topic case.

Governor Newsom even admitted (through his actions, if not his words) that Justice Thomas was right that "urban renewal" means "negro removal" if the balance of "public use" is to be determined by property tax collections. He was able to figure out that Thomas was right and the majority made a mistake.

At least, that's how I see it. Do you think the topic case was decided correctly, or did they make a mistake?
Nice dance moves. I guess you’d rather not answer the question. Alright.
 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,079
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Punta Gorda FL
Nice dance moves. I guess you’d rather not answer the question. Alright.
Sorry, I'm not too good at this.

Why don't you demonstrate that "answering questions" thing and I'll see if I can catch on.

Start here:

Do you think the topic case was decided correctly, or did they make a mistake?
 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,079
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Punta Gorda FL
A Black Family's Property Was Boughtback via Eminent Domain. A Century Later, Their Descendants Just Got It Back

This week, the state of California officially rectified a case of racially motivated eminent domain abuse after nearly a century.


In the early 1900s, a black family, Charles and Willa Bruce, moved to Manhattan Beach, California. In 1912, Mrs. Bruce bought up beachfront property which would be turned into a resort. At a time of strict segregation and racial prejudice, the resort became a haven for black beachgoers who were otherwise banned from the beach.


The resort "created great agitation among the white property owners of adjoining land," the Los Angeles Times reported at the time. Racist neighbors tried to dissuade anyone from patronizing what had come to be called Bruce's Beach, starting by posting "No Trespassing" signs and eventually escalating to the Ku Klux Klan burning crosses nearby. When none of that worked, in 1924, locals successfully petitioned the town's board of trustees to condemn the property. The town boughtback the Bruces' property for the stated purpose of building a park, giving the family $14,500 for a property worth nearly five times that amount. Today, it is estimated to be worth around $20 million.

...

Building a park is a legit use of eminent domain but this case shows that Justice Thomas was right in his dissent in the topic case when he talked about "negro removal."

Returning the land shows that everyone knows he was right, though few will actually admit it in words. Admitting it in actions is better anyway, if long overdue.
 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
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Punta Gorda FL
Tom will be along shortly to say that I shouldn't say anything mean about Big Pharma or he won't like me.
Nah, it's no surprise that you agree with your boy Shitstain on favoring big drug companies like Pfizer over individuals like Kelo. Shouldn't surprise you that I still disagree. But I can like people with whom I disagree. You're a lying, non-reading shit and THAT's why I don't like you.
 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
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Punta Gorda FL
Chatham residents react to NCDOT plans for VinFast factory site

...
It often takes many years for NCDOT to plan big highway projects like this. But the timeline here is set by VinFast and the state’s desire to see it begin producing electric SUVs at the plant in 2024.

Chatham County and the state offered the company $1.25 billion in tax and other incentives to locate here, including about $250 million for road and rail improvements in and around the site.

“I said to my wife, ‘If I can get on with FedEx, I could walk to work,’” Jack’s son Lewis said. “Not anymore.”

Lewis Sanderford said he had no idea where he will go, given the price of land and housing in the Triangle. “I said could you leave me a piece so I could live there?” he said he asked an NCDOT representative. “And he said, ‘No, we need it all.’”

Those who aren’t bought out entirely may endure different hardships, as the VinFast plant, with its thousands of workers, opens in their quiet, rural community. The two new interchanges and access roads will help spur other development. It’s not likely that Hardip’s Sky Mart will remain the only retail business at the two interchanges.

Mellor said NCDOT will review public feedback on its preliminary plans but said he couldn’t say how much the department will be able to change in the months ahead.

Kay Hinsley doesn’t expect it will be much. Hinsley will lose 80 to 100 feet of her front yard along old U.S. 1, near Exit 84.

There’s a history of this in the family and the community, she says. Her grandmother’s farm was split in two by U.S. 1 in 1958. Hinsley is living on part of that land.

After the highway came the construction of Jordan Lake and Harris Lake, which also required families to give up their farms and their homes.

“I call it the shredding of our little corner of the county,” Hinsley said. “These are massive changes. We’ve never had input. It’s always after the fact.”

I don't know about the billion in tax breaks and "incentives" but the quarter billion in road and rail work seems a legit use of eminent domain to me.
 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
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Punta Gorda FL
Save Burnet Road Coalition



I wish them luck, but the topic case showed that we've already been through this.

Bottom line: a commerce park is projected to bring in more tax revenue than a bunch of homes, and more tax revenue is a public purpose and that's the same as a public use. Some amount of money absolutely CAN replace that community. It just has to be more than they pay.
It's going about like you'd expect along Burnet Road. Government owners don't take care of property as well as private owners, big surprise.

...
Last month, several of the homeowners worked together to file code complaints against the properties that had already been boughtback by the county. Chief among the complaints about the county-owned properties were that many had fallen into disrepair and attracted criminal activity, such as looting.

“The county has basically put ‘for sale’ signs in front of our homes, even though we don’t want to sell them,” said Britta Serog, another one of the Burnet Road homeowners. “This road was a community with rural charm, and the loss of farmland would be tragic. The county cannot just take our land because they want something else here.”
...

They can if it's projected to bring in more tax revenue. That was the bottom line of the topic case and it hasn't been overruled.

We have a new court now, with reactionaries who might agree with Justice Thomas and the Kochy nutjobs at IJ on this issue. We'll see...
 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
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Alachua Pulls Rug From Under Tiny Homes

...
Krsna and Govinda built their first tiny home in May 2020. After offering it for short-term rental, they quickly realized that there was significant demand for people to have a small, affordable escape during the COVID-19 pandemic. Over the past two years, operating as Simplify Further, they have built and rented out a dozen more tiny homes.

Initially, Alachua interpreted its ordinances to classify tiny homes as RVs, which were allowed under the code. Additionally, the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles allowed them to register the homes as RVs and the Department of Business and Professional Regulation licensed them as transient lodging establishments.

But in early October, Alachua changed its mind, ordering Krsna and Govinda to remove the tiny homes from their property in 30 days. Otherwise, the city threatened, they would face arrest and prosecution. Complying with this sudden deadline is practically impossible and would cause tremendous damage. It forces Krsna and Govinda to abruptly shutter their business, haul away their tiny homes, and fire their employees. IJ is asking Alachua to either allow Krsna and Govinda to continue their business or provide them an additional 120 days to comply.
...
Seems like a regulatory buyback to me.
 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
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Punta Gorda FL
Colorado Town Buyingback Ski Resort's Land To Stop It Building Employee Housing

Following months of increasingly contentious head-butting, officials in the mountain town of Vail, Colorado, are moving to buyback a property from a local ski resort to prevent it from constructing new housing for its employees.


The property in question is a 5-acre site abutting a frontage road in the eastern part of the 5,600-person ski town. After nearly five years of rezonings, planning, permitting, and litigation, ski resort operator Vail Resorts is ready to move ahead with the $17 million Booth Heights project that would create 165 beds for its work force.

...

In 2017, the Vail Town Council approved Vail Resorts' requested rezoning of its entire 23-acre Booth Heights property. Some 18 acres owned by the company would be zoned for preserved open space, while the other 5 acres would be zoned for work force housing.


Since then, the town's design review board and the planning commission, as well as the town's Council itself, also voted to approve site plans, conditional use permits, and other development plans Vail Resorts needed to move ahead with its project.

...

Throughout the process, Vail Resorts has maintained that its project would not harm the area's bighorn sheep. Plack tells Reason the company has committed to paying $100,000 for habitat restoration and would install barriers around its property to prevent residents and pets from interfering with the sheep.

An environmental impact report prepared for the project concluded that it would not harm the area's sheep. Vail Resorts notes in a lawsuit challenging the emergency ordinance stopping construction of its project that the town has approved several large homes within the bighorn sheep's range.

"Why are luxury homes OK," asks Plack. "but affordable housing [is] not?"

Langmaid is dismissive of the company's mitigation measures. Converting the Booth Heights site to housing is still going to eat up needed open space, she says, and no amount of offset payments or fencing is going to change that.

Town residents themselves seem divided on the project. Public comments submitted to the Council when it was debating the use of eminent domain reflect a range of pro- and anti-development views.

"It is obvious that we are in a housing crisis and action needs to be taken immediately. This project is the first piece of what will be a long road to providing more housing opportunities to the workforce of the valley," said one resident opposing the town's buyback of the site.

"First, our wildlife is important to the character and attractiveness of this valley, not the least of which are the sheep," said an eminent domain supporter. "Second, the first view of Vail that visitors (and residents) coming down from Vail pass should see is the current one, not a massive and out of place apartment complex."
...

Can the sheep get by with 18 acres or do they really need all 23?

The project would create 165 beds but the article mentions that 6,000 are needed. They're going to be somewhere.

Somewhere, anywhere, else would be preferable according to that last person quoted. I can see the point. Got my first harbor view of our three new big, ugly boxes (one adorned with crashed crane) yesterday. I liked it better before. But the resort will bring $$$ and the old, closed marina and gooney golf and crappy little motel that were there before, well, didn't.

Creating a sheep park instead of an ugly apartment building seems to me a legitimate use of eminent domain. Whether it's wise policy is another question and I kind of doubt it.

A hundred grand for habitat restoration after spending 17 million on a five acre apartment complex seems like a good start to me.
 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,266
299
near Seattle, Wa
Tom: Never heard of him. (Leonard Leo)
Joe: You are a liar, sir
.

Have you ever heard of the Federalist Society? Well, it is the creation (and personification) of Leonard Leo. And it has queered democracy, yo, in the name of Libertarianism.

You should school us all on this driving force, Leonard Leo. Because "Justice" Clarence Thomas discusses Mr Leo as the third most powerful man on earth, while they chat about it on camera, together. And Mr. Leo has recruited Justice Thomas as a god-father to his son. Leonard has partnered with Ginni Thomas in numerous undertakings.

Welcome to the Dark Money Express, Dogballs. Can you explain this travesty to The People?

No, you can't. Rather than discuss this (very vibrant, ongoing) Libertarian mess, you want me to go through your indoctrination on eminent domain.

No thanks. Because your grasp of the gun situation was very, very disappointing.
 
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Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
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Punta Gorda FL
Because "Justice" Clarence Thomas discusses Mr Leo as the third most powerful man on earth, while they chat about it on camera, together. And Mr. Leo has recruited Justice Thomas as a god-father to his son. Leonard has partnered with Ginni Thomas in numerous undertakings.

Welcome to the Dark Money Express, Dogballs. Can you explain this travesty to The People?

No, you can't. Rather than discuss this (very vibrant, ongoing) Libertarian mess, you want me to go through your indoctrination on eminent domain.

No thanks. Because your grasp of the gun situation was very, very disappointing.

When considering eminent domain abuses, as with every other issue, it's important to recognize that I sometimes say bad things about TeamD gun bans and buyback programs, so thanks for bringing that into the discussion.

As for the "travesty" of Clarence and Ginni Thomas' position on Kelo, perhaps you could discuss it with people who have, to my knowledge, never said anything bad about any gun control advocate or policy. Even those untainted by heresy can see that Ginni Thomas is right to hate Pfizer. No one has explained why she hates Pfizer, but it must be true because many people are saying it.

That's right, the Hawaii case was the oligopoly decision. That would have caused a ruckus these days. I agree with Thomas re Kelo.

I agree with Thomas too in Kelo.
 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,266
299
near Seattle, Wa
The ghost database is an organized affair. And you are renowned as Kelo Tom, Shirley. I already get these bits. But I feel no satisfaction yet.

I want Kelo Tom to lay out the justification for the broad strokes of what Leonard Leo has done through the Federalist Society. When dark money is to be glorified, and the stench of the SC needs explaining, Kelo Tom has the brightest mind around these parts to do it.

Please proceed. Let the dogballs sparkle for us, at dawn.
dogballs 2.jpg
 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
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Punta Gorda FL
I want Kelo Tom to lay out the justification for the broad strokes of what Leonard Leo has done through the Federalist Society
You need to make up your mind. You say you want a Clarence Thomas fan who hasn't said anything bad about TeamD gun bans and buyback programs, I offer you two such people, and now you say you actually want to hear from a heretic on the gun issue. Which is it?
 

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