Laptops and flying

mustang__1

mustang__1

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Philly, by way of Sarasota and Newport...
Just curious, a few months ago i was flying in a light plane around 17k, it stopped working and got warm, and i could feel it clicking... cound't hear it obviously. What is the chance that it broke because its an ipod, and what is the chance it broke because the literature says not to take it over 10k? (which i only found out afterwards of course)... i want to know so i dont possibly kill my laptop tomorrow, which probably has a similar operating parameter....

 
T22

T22

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Halifax, Nova Scotia
Pressurization doesn't work that way. If you would be required to fly over 10000', the aircraft would have to be pressurized (for commercial aircraft). If you are at 25000 feet altitude, the cabin would be around 8000 feet. Was the aircraft you were in, pressurized? If it was then the cabin most likely never went near 10000 ft, probably around 6K, so the Ipod wouldn't 'know' it was above its service altitude. Millions of people use laptops and Ipods every day in flight, some up to (outside) altitudes well over 40,000'. I am guessing you have other issues.

Google Ipod and Clicking?

 
Foreverslow

Foreverslow

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Deltaville Virginia
mustang__1 said:
Just curious, a few months ago i was flying in a light plane around 17k, it stopped working and got warm, and i could feel it clicking... cound't hear it obviously. What is the chance that it broke because its an ipod, and what is the chance it broke because the literature says not to take it over 10k? (which i only found out afterwards of course)... i want to know so i dont possibly kill my laptop tomorrow, which probably has a similar operating parameter....
Click to expand...

That sounds like crap to keep the lawyers away (do not swim with, do not use it to start gas grill etc).

I have been flying around the world with laptops since the late 80s.

Some have done 200,000 miles in a single year without a hick up.

And we will not even talk about the abuse when they were back on the ground.

The thing folded in. Though the Mean Time Between Failure is really high, they do occationally fail.

As Gunny Highway said

It was his time. And one day it will be yours. Deal with it.

From your description, it sounds like the battery was going dead and the clicking was the thing writting to disk before shutting down.

Sure you had a solid power supply to it?

Have you tried a new battery and let it charge before booting?

 
S

shortbus

Anarchist
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The Bay
I suspect your IPod is crap and decided to quit working for other reasons (general wear and tear, with problems exacerbated by vibration?), but working as I do building medium voltage power equipment which is sometimes operated at high altitudes, there are some legitimate design concerns:

The dielectric properties of air at sea lever are different than those at high elevations, with 1000M being the break point in standards for where considerations have to be made. Larger clearances, creepage distances etc have to be designed into air insulated equipment under those conditions, although with our equipment we are talking many 1000's of volts. Considering what is happening inside your IPod, this is most likely not a factor in this case.

The thermal properties of air at altitude are different due to the different density of air at lower barometric pressures. More air needs to be moved over an air cooled device to obtain the same cooling effects as at full atmospheric pressure but once again, it doesn't appear as if an IPod approaches the limits of cooling in it's normal design since the case is essentially sealed and not designed for cooling air flow during normal operation.

Once again, neither of these point play into the operation of your IPod, but it is worth being aware that real design considerations do need to be made for electrical equipment being operated at high altitudes.

 
TsunamiMike

TsunamiMike

Anarchist
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Illinois
mustang__1 said:
Just curious, a few months ago i was flying in a light plane around 17k, it stopped working and got warm, and i could feel it clicking... cound't hear it obviously. What is the chance that it broke because its an ipod, and what is the chance it broke because the literature says not to take it over 10k? (which i only found out afterwards of course)... i want to know so i dont possibly kill my laptop tomorrow, which probably has a similar operating parameter....
Click to expand...

T22 said:
Pressurization doesn't work that way. If you would be required to fly over 10000', the aircraft would have to be pressurized (for commercial aircraft). If you are at 25000 feet altitude, the cabin would be around 8000 feet. Was the aircraft you were in, pressurized? If it was then the cabin most likely never went near 10000 ft, probably around 6K, so the Ipod wouldn't 'know' it was above its service altitude. Millions of people use laptops and Ipods every day in flight, some up to (outside) altitudes well over 40,000'. I am guessing you have other issues.Google Ipod and Clicking?
Click to expand...

He is in a light plane, and at 17k all he needs is oxygen per the regs. If it is pressurized (a few are) it sounds like the device is gimpy. However, based on the original post I bet the plane he was flying wasn't pressurized.

Not sure how to tell Apple that it "just stopped working". They probably have an internal component that isn't stressed for that altitude (over 10k). As a corollary don't take your iPod mountain climbing.

 
Z

Zipped

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I don't think pressure affects electronics, otherwise the computers in the space shuttles wouldn't work or even the flight controls for the vomit comet.

 
flaps15

flaps15

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dna level c
Zipped said:
I don't think pressure affects electronics, otherwise the computers in the space shuttles wouldn't work or even the flight controls for the vomit comet.
Click to expand...
I think you mean lack of pressure, higher less, lower more? I'm using my laptop as I type, enroute FL310, cabin pressure around 7,000. I've never had a problem, I'd go mad without it. Once you're at altitude it get's really boring.

 
T22

T22

Super Anarchist
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Halifax, Nova Scotia
Zipped said:
I don't think pressure affects electronics, otherwise the computers in the space shuttles wouldn't work or even the flight controls for the vomit comet.
Click to expand...

Ipods, though pretty cool, I'm not thinkin they are built to the electronic standards NASA demands.

But then again, maybe they are!

 
KRC

KRC

Super Anarchist
2,876
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Seattle, WA
mustang__1 said:
Just curious, a few months ago i was flying in a light plane around 17k, it stopped working and got warm, and i could feel it clicking... cound't hear it obviously. What is the chance that it broke because its an ipod, and what is the chance it broke because the literature says not to take it over 10k? (which i only found out afterwards of course)... i want to know so i dont possibly kill my laptop tomorrow, which probably has a similar operating parameter....
Click to expand...
Clicking noises sounds like a hard drive issue. Unless it's under warranty, it will cost less to buy a new one.

The reason it got warm is because at higher altitudes, there is less air, thus the lower pressure. Air cooled items therefore do not get enough "coolant" and end up getting warmer than they would at sea level.

 
miahmouse

miahmouse

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Virginia Beach, VA
The iPod failed due to a decrease in density of air or because its time had come. Specifically, the hard disk inside failed... the head floats over the platters on a cushion of air.... decrease the density and the head can/will smack into the platter causing data loss/drive failure.

In a non-pressurized cabin, this is an issue...

 
Z

Zipped

Super Anarchist
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Detroit
miahmouse said:
The iPod failed due to a decrease in density of air or because its time had come. Specifically, the hard disk inside failed... the head floats over the platters on a cushion of air.... decrease the density and the head can/will smack into the platter causing data loss/drive failure.
In a non-pressurized cabin, this is an issue...
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that Ipods hard disks are suspended by rubber bands, not a cushion of air

 
Z

Zipped

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Detroit
flaps15 said:
Zipped said:
I don't think pressure affects electronics, otherwise the computers in the space shuttles wouldn't work or even the flight controls for the vomit comet.
Click to expand...
I think you mean lack of pressure, higher less, lower more? I'm using my laptop as I type, enroute FL310, cabin pressure around 7,000. I've never had a problem, I'd go mad without it. Once you're at altitude it get's really boring.
Click to expand...

Pressure is a force per unit area, it can be either low or high. Same as discussing temperature, there can be more heat or less heat.

 
P

President Eisenhowler

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Zipped said:
I don't think pressure affects electronics, otherwise the computers in the space shuttles wouldn't work or even the flight controls for the vomit comet.
Click to expand...
Pressure absolutely does affect electronics, that's part of the reason the electronics headed into space are different from what you'd buy off-the-shelf. Among other things, (already posted by others), air cooling doesn't work once the air gets thin, and hard drives are engineered around a certain air density - get away from that and the heads crash into the platters.

Another effect in space, not directly related to air pressure: in zero g, convective cooling does not work at all. On Earth, as a component gets warm, the air around it expands and rises, making room for more cooler air. In zero g, a hot component just sits in a cloud of its own hot air unless there's a fan blowing on it.

 
Zonker

Zonker

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Hard drives do fail at altitude. They rely on floating over the disk. If the air density gets too low, then crash is inevitable. Most are rated to 10,000'

 
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