Large NMEA 0183 Night Time Displays

Ocean View

Member
383
6
Australia
Looking for some larger displays to show larger text and higher contrasting data

Some crew are having trouble seeing the tacktick micronet lcd displays at night which is causing issues.

We run expedition and have NMEA 0183 data available - So looking for recommendations on 12v powered displays that support NMEA 0183 input.

One option is to buy a few maxi series displays T210 and T215 series.

Prefer to have a the following data displayed

Wind angle via a large format Visible needle and degrees -

As well as a couple of multi displays to show BTW, COG, BSP, DPT, TWS, AWA etc

The maxi series will do it,

But looking for a lower cost wired versions if anyone knows of anything that can be 12V DC powered with nmea 0183 as it's data stream

Any ideas?

T210.gif



 

allene222

Super Anarchist
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58
SF Bay
I have the smaller TackTick displays and also a Stowe Terminal display. The Terminal is different than their regular displays because it will just display any old text you spit at it like a terminal. It takes nmea-0183 that has position, font size, and the text. It also has lines. I write to it with the RaceBox I built so can put up anything I want. In the picture below I have speed and turn but in other arrangements I put up 5 things at once. I just show this so you can see the difference in night viewing between the two. I think Expedition can drive the Stowe displays although I don't know to what level they support it. I welcome new people to the StartLine team, which is what the RaceBox supports. It is setup now to interface with TackTick but is probably largely redundant with your Expedition setup which probably does more things. The only thing is the Stowe display right now is a little slow but then again, so is the TackTick display. I am working with Stowe to get that fixed and we have identified the problem code and they are working to improve it. I paid about $500 for the Stowe terminal. I don't sell anything, I give it away. You could build a RaceBox for under $200. No soldering required if I make a special version, which I could do. Anyway, here is a picture I just took so you can see. And Stowe does make a straight nmea-0183 display that will take the sentences out of the TackTick interface box I think.

light.jpg


 
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us7070

Super Anarchist
10,229
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those are pretty cool - and cheap too - less than US $450

the manufacturer offers to add other numbers to display, if desired.

i don't know a lot a bout nmea 0183.., but is there any reason why Nick White couldn't add a bunch of nmea 0183 custom sentences to the current 0183 Expedition output..., just as he has done with nmea 2000 for the expedition displays

it seems like these guys would be willing to work with him to display the data

 

Tucky

Super Anarchist
3,497
24
Maine
I mount my Tacktick displays with 3M dual lock and just move them around as needed. Instead of mounting them forward I have multiple spots where they can go. Solves the issue on my trimaran at least.

 

mindgasm

Member
486
0
Virginia
those are pretty cool - and cheap too - less than US $450

the manufacturer offers to add other numbers to display, if desired.

i don't know a lot a bout nmea 0183.., but is there any reason why Nick White couldn't add a bunch of nmea 0183 custom sentences to the current 0183 Expedition output..., just as he has done with nmea 2000 for the expedition displays

it seems like these guys would be willing to work with him to display the data
NMEA 0183 doesn't support custom sentences in the same way that NMEA 2000 does. It is certainly possible to develop a custom sentence, but it would no longer be NMEA 0183. The presence of a custom sentence in the NMEA 0183 stream could cause issues for listeners that aren't prepared to handle the custom sentence structure. You also run the risk of listeners not passing along the custom sentences.

In short, it is all doable. But, there are an awful lot of cons to very few pros, especially on a protocol which is gradually being phased out.

 

rgeek

Super Anarchist
2,722
135
There is scope for this in NMEA0183.

Standard NMEA0183 sentences begin $xxYYY where xx is the instrument type and YYY the sentence identifier

Propitiatory sentences begin $Ppppx where ppp if a TLA assigned to a manufacturer and x is a manufacturer assigned letter.

Looks a nice bit of kit at the right price point.

 

Chasm

Super Anarchist
2,519
329
One of the interesting parts is that it's a two part solution.

Display and the

NEMA0183 box with 6 inputs (2 of them differential) and wireless remote to switch channels

The display has a 3 wire+screen connection, so power and a serial interface. The box firmware can be updated. No reason not to implement custom messages. If in doubt use a dedicated input, don't transmit across the whole ship network.

(Or sniff the connection to the display and roll your own box. Getting a good display is usually the hard part. ;) Also no real reason for NASA not to add a NEMA2000 box variation to their portfolio.)

 

allene222

Super Anarchist
3,961
58
SF Bay
A couple of point to add. NMEA-0183 absolutely supports custom sentences. As rgeek said, they start with P. TackTick supports PTAK and Stowe supports PTIN. I use PSTL but that is bootleg but STL is not registered I thought it safe for my purposes.

When I was looking for a display that supported custom sentences, I found the Stowe display that I pictured above and bought one for about $500. It only supports custom sentences and everything it displays is custom. The only thing I asked they before I bought it was how much delay it had. I required delay of 1/10 second and was assured that it met that. It turns out that the delay on the Stowe display is about one second. The TackTick display also has a fair amount of delay, I am going to measure it in a bit. This is a major concern for my application as I want to display burn time to the line and while I can compensate for the delay, it is not ideal.

I am trying to get Stowe to improve the delay and they say they can but need a commitment for 20 units which I cannot provide. It is an otherwise very nice display and the ability to put up any test you want is also very nice. My RaceBox can drive the display and really do anything you would want. I can take nmea-0183 in and display whatever you want. I even calculate current and display that. Maybe Expedition can do the same as I know they support Stowe.

Bottom line is I either need to find 20 units for them or find another display for myself. The Yacht display above has a couple of issues for my application 1) it doesn't support custom sentences 2) They talk about delay of less than 2 seconds. That is just not in the ballpark.

 

allene222

Super Anarchist
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SF Bay
What displays, nmea-1083 or nmea-2000 support custom displays? By custom I mean I can display 1234.5 under the heading xyzzy if I wanted to. I would also like to have 2up, 3up, 4up or even 5up on the display. 1up is not so interesting.

 

George Hackett

Super Anarchist
i have not had a real problem especially with the 20/20 style maxi dual line display of TackTick. when sailing near shore where there is a lot of city light, i set the brightness level to 3. as a race progress and we get away from the city light i eventually tone down to level 1.

i do agree that the standard size display are harder to read especially from the side. the larger Maxi Displays are great.

 

allene222

Super Anarchist
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SF Bay
I just tested the delay in the TactTick display. I do not have a display that will show PTAK sentences so I sent it depth data that I incremented once a second. The display was just a tad over 1 second late. This is the delay from when the nmea-0183 sentence hits the TackTick nmea interface to when it shows up on the TackTick display.

 

Chasm

Super Anarchist
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1 seconds delay? - Ouch.

Obvious there will be a bit of delay. There has to be a message, it has to be received, checked if it gets displayed, an update to the LCD issued. But a sec? Wtf!

Esp. with the power budget some of the displays have. 1W in case of the Stowe - without background light which is usually THE power hog.

 

allene222

Super Anarchist
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SF Bay
Well, the TackTick is over a second and the Stowe is about a second and the Yacht repeater is not really specific but says under 2 seconds in their Q&A. The Stowe display should be very fast. They told me it was under 100mS before I bought it. They say they can fix it but just need to be able to see 20 units to justify it to their display driver vendor.

I want to emphasize that this is not the Stowe display on their web site. It is a custom version they call a terminal. This display can display anything. There are 8 different font sizes and text can be placed anywhere. Lines can be drawn anywhere. You can say anything and to emphasize that fact I took this picture. If enough people get together we can get this fixed. The display takes nmea-0183 but at 9600 baud, which they did to make it faster not realizing there was a bug in the display driver.

See, you really can display "anything at all"

anything.jpg


Here is the thing on speed of the display. NMEA-0183 updates at once a second. That is acceptable. But that doesn't mean the data is old data. It is just displayed once a second. For example, a count down timer is updated every second but is accurate to some small fraction of a second. If the display adds some delay, the readout is no longer fresh. A start timer sent to a display that adds up to a second delay is difficult to deal with if even useful at all. I don't mind the once a second update rate but I want what is displayed to represent a value at the time it is displayed.

 

rgeek

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The problem wth using an established sentence to pass a custom value to something like the tacktick is that you don't know what filtering etc. is being done at the display head.

 
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allene222

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SF Bay
@rgeek. I agree that is a concern but I did not observe filtering although I specifically looked for it. In other words, there was no filtering on the depth display, just a 1 second delay. On the other hand, because of your comment I looked at the display of time and there is no delay there so apparently they do treat different sentences differently. Therefore, I withdraw my comment about the delay for custom sentences and will say only that I do not know. You are right, I do not know.

Allen

 

Alex W

Super Anarchist
3,326
316
Seattle, WA
allen: Is the 1 second delay on the TickTack due to your averaging settings on the display? On my i70 and ST70 (both by Raymarine and the only generic displays that I have) there are settings that control how updates are averaged and dampened. The settings are per-value (so you can make depth instantaneous and boat speed heavily dampened if you like). They are pretty buried in the menu system.

When I've been playing with sending data to the display I always make sure that these settings are turned off.

I've never used the TickTack display and don't know if it also does this.

 

rgeek

Super Anarchist
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Thers's setting for responsivness on each input on the Tacktick ... except for depth unfortunatly

 

allene222

Super Anarchist
3,961
58
SF Bay
Well, as I said, there is no filtering on the TackTick depth display, just delay. Let me elaborate. If I send a depth of 0 for 30 seconds and then send a depth of 10 meters what you see is that around 31 seconds the reading changes from 0 to 9.9 and stays there. If there was filtering you would see it go from 0 to, say 3, then 5.1, 6.6, 7.6, 8.3, 8.8, 9.2, 9.4, 9.6, 9.7, 9.8, 9.9 or perhaps 6.9, 9.0, 9.6, 9.8, 9.9 depending on the amount of filtering . But if the reading goes from 0 right to 9.9, like it does, then there is no filtering, just delay. Why it ends up at 9.9 instead of 10 is a mystery. It is not because I have a heel offset entered. I will say that the delay is variable. It is sometimes more than a second and sometimes less than a second.

As I pointed out, when I send the time, it changes right when it should. The bottom line then is that this test does not tell us about the delay for the PTAK sentences because I was measuring the IIDPT sentences. I would need a display that I do not have to test that. I have one of my StartLine RaceBox systems installed on a J-109 in Europe and he has a maxi display so we will get an answer eventually and I can report back at that time. If anyone is in the SF Bay area and has a single line TackTick display and wants to help out with this test, let me know. Perhaps we can get together.

 

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