Largest One Design Participation Numbers?

[Gray Ghost]

Wow, look at where the Flying Scot is on that list.

They would very likely be the top boat on the list if they would be a little accommodating of people with day jobs. Their class always seems to schedule Nationals Tuesday through Friday, so any non-retiree or professional will have to take a week off of work.

I know that "50" in 2010 would have included another 20 or more if it had been a Fri-Sat-Sun event.

And there I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Many people think it is money - cash - that is the problem in declining participation. To some degree that is of course true, but to a larger extent it is time.

The concession of which you speak where the racing is all mid-week is likely to appease the host club who gets pressure from their members to keep "those sailors" away from the club on the weekend. I see this in many clubs. People, especially new members, fail to remember the only reason the club at which they enjoy their private waterfront dining experience is there only because long ago some people who raced sailboats got together and acquired some land on which to keep their boats as a waterfront econimic co-op for boat storage and waterfront access. To ignore that heritage is to doom the facility to eventually become condo's.

I probably have more flexibility than most with my schedule, but I am simply done going to a week long regatta and doing exactly the same thing, meaning W/L races, where the ENTIRE day is sucked up sitting in a boat, and most of the time is wasted waiting for "perfect" conditions.

Why on earth can't a championship regatta have a wide variety of courses? How about some downwind starts, some triangle courses, some distance races around government marks. And for boats that like to plane on a reach, why not some power reaches on occassion?

While interesting, I think this poll shows only the trends in people willing to travel to a championship regatta. It is one measure of a class, but all calsses are not created equal - some are travelling only classes, some have wide and active fleet distribution while also a big travelling component. Classes that want to up their numbers need to look at many factors, time being the biggest, both in terms of gross time to be involved in the regatta, and then how time is spent at the regatta. They need to ask members what they want; just hard core W/L racing as we have come to know it, or, will another format help to attract more people to the regatta?

It is evident that we are racing to attrition. Is the goal to be the last guy to win the class championship trophy because no one else wanted to come play any more?

I agree that for the smaller dinghy classes, the time drain is a significant deterrent to attendance at national events. I race in the Flying Scot class, at the local, regional (midwest) and sometimes at the North American Championships. I pick and choose which NACs and Midwinters I attend by weighing the time sucked vs the likely quality of the regatta. I'm willing to drive a day or three to get to a place which I know will probably be windy, well-attended and not boiling hot. Thus Dallas (2 days drive) in summer = no but Sarasota (3 days drive) in winter = yes.

For many national classes, scheduling the regatta on a Saturday-Sunday only would not necessarily result in better attendance. That's because there's significant driving time involved to get to the event. In Scots, for many sailors a national event is a full day or two full days drive. So, if you limit the racing to a Saturday and Sunday, and you still have to get there by Friday noonish in order to measure in and set up your boat, many attendees still have to miss 3, 4 or 5 weekdays at work because of travel time. And, all that driving seems hardly worth it if the event is only 2 days long, especially if some of those two days are lost to bad weather.

At least for classes who drive their own boats to regattas like Scots, it makes sense to schedule a 4 1/2 day event during the week for the big regattas like the NACs and Midwinters, because then competitors get 9 days off in a row by taking only 5 weekdays off work. That allows for travel time on each end and the length of the event makes it a satisfactory one, worth the drive.

For classes with more than 2 or 3 crew, where one or two people drive the boat to the event and the rest fly in the Friday evening before Saturday's race start, a weekend event can make sense. For a couples-heavy class like Scots, the weekday format can be the best compromise.

 

[White Trash 216]

You are talking about championship events, two days barely get you through qualifiers... What a class can do, as I think Snipes do, is have the B-Fleet not require participation in the qualifiers. You run into event mgt issues with measurement, etc

Frankly if you are looking for competitive weekend events, that is what OD Classes have their regional championships and District championships for.

Nationals and/or NAs are the culmination of a year of sailboat racing. They also represent a week of vacation time with your friends from across the country, people you only see a couple times each year.

Wow, look at where the Flying Scot is on that list.

They would very likely be the top boat on the list if they would be a little accommodating of people with day jobs. Their class always seems to schedule Nationals Tuesday through Friday, so any non-retiree or professional will have to take a week off of work.

I know that "50" in 2010 would have included another 20 or more if it had been a Fri-Sat-Sun event.

And there I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Many people think it is money - cash - that is the problem in declining participation. To some degree that is of course true, but to a larger extent it is time.

The concession of which you speak where the racing is all mid-week is likely to appease the host club who gets pressure from their members to keep "those sailors" away from the club on the weekend. I see this in many clubs. People, especially new members, fail to remember the only reason the club at which they enjoy their private waterfront dining experience is there only because long ago some people who raced sailboats got together and acquired some land on which to keep their boats as a waterfront econimic co-op for boat storage and waterfront access. To ignore that heritage is to doom the facility to eventually become condo's.

I probably have more flexibility than most with my schedule, but I am simply done going to a week long regatta and doing exactly the same thing, meaning W/L races, where the ENTIRE day is sucked up sitting in a boat, and most of the time is wasted waiting for "perfect" conditions.

Why on earth can't a championship regatta have a wide variety of courses? How about some downwind starts, some triangle courses, some distance races around government marks. And for boats that like to plane on a reach, why not some power reaches on occassion?

While interesting, I think this poll shows only the trends in people willing to travel to a championship regatta. It is one measure of a class, but all calsses are not created equal - some are travelling only classes, some have wide and active fleet distribution while also a big travelling component. Classes that want to up their numbers need to look at many factors, time being the biggest, both in terms of gross time to be involved in the regatta, and then how time is spent at the regatta. They need to ask members what they want; just hard core W/L racing as we have come to know it, or, will another format help to attract more people to the regatta?

It is evident that we are racing to attrition. Is the goal to be the last guy to win the class championship trophy because no one else wanted to come play any more?

I agree that for the smaller dinghy classes, the time drain is a significant deterrent to attendance at national events. I race in the Flying Scot class, at the local, regional (midwest) and sometimes at the North American Championships. I pick and choose which NACs and Midwinters I attend by weighing the time sucked vs the likely quality of the regatta. I'm willing to drive a day or three to get to a place which I know will probably be windy, well-attended and not boiling hot. Thus Dallas (2 days drive) in summer = no but Sarasota (3 days drive) in winter = yes.

For many national classes, scheduling the regatta on a Saturday-Sunday only would not necessarily result in better attendance. That's because there's significant driving time involved to get to the event. In Scots, for many sailors a national event is a full day or two full days drive. So, if you limit the racing to a Saturday and Sunday, and you still have to get there by Friday noonish in order to measure in and set up your boat, many attendees still have to miss 3, 4 or 5 weekdays at work because of travel time. And, all that driving seems hardly worth it if the event is only 2 days long, especially if some of those two days are lost to bad weather.

At least for classes who drive their own boats to regattas like Scots, it makes sense to schedule a 4 1/2 day event during the week for the big regattas like the NACs and Midwinters, because then competitors get 9 days off in a row by taking only 5 weekdays off work. That allows for travel time on each end and the length of the event makes it a satisfactory one, worth the drive.

For classes with more than 2 or 3 crew, where one or two people drive the boat to the event and the rest fly in the Friday evening before Saturday's race start, a weekend event can make sense. For a couples-heavy class like Scots, the weekday format can be the best compromise.

 

[White Trash 216]

I think the keys to the more successful one design classes include:

Strong and motivated volunteer class leaders

Boats and rigs with long competitive lifespans (my Thistle was built in the '50s and if I take care of it, she is barely middle aged)

Affordable and readily available competitive used boats

Affordable sails with acquisition rules

Community and Culture

Events with a fun social aspect after racing... There is nothing more fun than racing hard against friends, but in order to do so you need to have fun socials.

 

[daan62]

Dragons typically have 100+ boats for their major races. For the 75th anniversary regatta in St. Tropez there were 260 boats - not many classes can top that

absolutely right! but... not very much alive in the USA...

(in the Netherlands: small dragon events about 15 - 25 boats/ nationals 25 - 35 boats)

 

[fastyacht]

Dragon in Europe, Thistle in the U.S. Many great classes are regional or even local.

 

[6924]

It is very regional in the US - many large fleets with active participation go un-noticed among all the hype of the NAs and FLA events. All sailing is ultimately local.

For example, the Schock Harbor 20s had 51 boats registered for the Newport Harbor Winter Series of 4 regattas.

Many other classes have similar quiet & unsung participation rates.

 

[RogerJolly]

Don't have time to do much more than post results this year.

Attached in the Index through 2013.See previous years posts for an explanation.

 

[RogerJolly]

1 Laser Radial - 135.67

2 Sunfish - 79.33

3 Thistle - 74.00

4 E Scow - 71.00

5 Flying Scot - 67.67

6 MC Scow - 67.33

7 Laser - 63.67

8 C Scow - 62.67

9 Lighting - 55.33

10 Formula 18 - 53.00

11 Albacore - 51.00

12 Snipe - 40.33

13 Hobie 16 - 42.33

14 29er - 41.67

15 J/22 - 39.67

16 Ensign - 37.33

17 Shark - 37.33

18 Etchells - 36.00

19 Atlantic - 35.67

20 Star - 34.33

21 A Class - 34.00

22 Cal 20 - 33.33

23 Y Flyer - 33.33

24 Interlake - 33.00

25 J/105 - 31.33

25 Viper 640 - 31.33

Big Footnote: J/70 class with an 89 boat North Americans in their first year

 

[coolerboy]

Agree with 6924. More regional. I live in SF so 95% sailing here. 5% Santa Cruz. That is just my choice. I have sailed Long Beach and the weather was awesome but no wind. No need to travel 8 hours for what I consider to be less fun. I have sailed on the east coast and think it is boring. I'm not motivated to travel because I love my home venue. With that said ....I will travel if I get a kick in the ass from the fleet. If you are sailing against your friends and cracking a few brews afterwards that is fun. You want to be a part of that. All about the fleet for big time OD IMHO.

 

[Wet Spreaders]

1 Laser Radial - 135.67

2 Sunfish - 79.33

3 Thistle - 74.00

4 E Scow - 71.00

5 Flying Scot - 67.67

6 MC Scow - 67.33

7 Laser - 63.67

8 C Scow - 62.67

9 Lighting - 55.33

10 Formula 18 - 53.00

11 Albacore - 51.00

12 Snipe - 40.33

13 Hobie 16 - 42.33

14 29er - 41.67

15 J/22 - 39.67

16 Ensign - 37.33

17 Shark - 37.33

18 Etchells - 36.00

19 Atlantic - 35.67

20 Star - 34.33

21 A Class - 34.00

22 Cal 20 - 33.33

23 Y Flyer - 33.33

24 Interlake - 33.00

25 J/105 - 31.33

25 Viper 640 - 31.33

Big Footnote: J/70 class with an 89 boat North Americans in their first year

Great list! What happens if you multiply by the number of crew per boat (Laser gets 1, Hobie 16 gets 2, for example) to see how many people are involved in each fleet?

 

[Hobie Dog]

Dude, Get out your Excel and give us the calculations you lazy ass! JK :lol:

Don't have time to run them all but but assuming the E Scow races 4 up then they win easy followed by the Flying Scot racing 3 up.

 

[Hobie Dog]

Thanks again RollyJolly for running the numbers! How far down do you carry these calculations before you stop and figure they are out of it?

 

[allanfj]

I just think what White Trash216 stated should be stated/noticed again: I think it is universally accepted that the Thistle Class knows how to keep the numbers. I will add: Girls, Wives, Daughters, Girlfriends to the list

I think the keys to the more successful one design classes include:

Strong and motivated volunteer class leaders

Boats and rigs with long competitive lifespans (my Thistle was built in the '50s and if I take care of it, she is barely middle aged)

Affordable and readily available competitive used boats

Affordable sails with acquisition rules

Community and Culture

Events with a fun social aspect after racing... There is nothing more fun than racing hard against friends, but in order to do so you need to have fun socials.

 

[RogerJolly]

Looks like I had some mistakes. Corrected below.

1 Laser Radial - 135.67

2 Sunfish - 79.33

3 Thistle - 74.00

4 E Scow - 71.00

5 Flying Scot - 67.67

6 MC Scow - 67.33

7 Laser - 63.67

8 C Scow - 62.67

9 Lighting - 55.33

10 Formula 18 - 53.00

11 Albacore - 51.00

12 Hobie 16 - 42.33

13 29er - 41.67

14 Snipe - 40.33

15 J/22 - 39.67

16 Ensign - 37.33

16 Shark - 37.33

18 Etchells - 36.00

19 Atlantic - 35.67

20 Star - 34.33

21 A Class - 34.00

22 Cal 20 - 33.33

22 Y Flyer - 33.33

24 Interlake - 33.00

25 J/105 - 31.33

25 Viper 640 - 31.33

Big Footnote: J/70 class with an 89 boat North Americans in their first year

 

[Savage 17]

Looks like I had some mistakes. Corrected below.

1 Laser Radial - 135.67

2 Sunfish - 79.33

3 Thistle - 74.00

4 E Scow - 71.00

5 Flying Scot - 67.67

6 MC Scow - 67.33

7 Laser - 63.67

8 C Scow - 62.67

9 Lighting - 55.33

10 Formula 18 - 53.00

11 Albacore - 51.00

12 Hobie 16 - 42.33

13 29er - 41.67

14 Snipe - 40.33

15 J/22 - 39.67

16 Ensign - 37.33

16 Shark - 37.33

18 Etchells - 36.00

19 Atlantic - 35.67

20 Star - 34.33

21 A Class - 34.00

22 Cal 20 - 33.33

22 Y Flyer - 33.33

24 Interlake - 33.00

25 J/105 - 31.33

25 Viper 640 - 31.33

Big Footnote: J/70 class with an 89 boat North Americans in their first year

And close to 70 registered for key west and charleston each

 

[RogerJolly]

So what do the Johnstone's know that everyone else does not? The J/70 phenomenon just blows me away. What's the formula?

 

[RogerJolly]

Thanks again RollyJolly for running the numbers! How far down do you carry these calculations before you stop and figure they are out of it?

I have 75 classes on my list and I'm reasonably confident I have the top 40 in order without omissions.

 

[Tcatman]

I think the Johnstones understand the role crew play in turnout. The Lightning class also has led your ranking in the past... (counting the total number of sailors on the water.... and at the party). In any region... you have a finite number of crew and the owners have a finite amount of enenergy to keep filling the boat.. The people dynamics within a three or more boat team is very different then the two man classes and that is key to their popularity...The fact that you don't need a huge crew roster and the asym management is easier to staff makes the class a winner.

 

[MrSwordfish]

I have 75 classes on my list and I'm reasonably confident I have the top 40 in order without omissions.

Thanks for doing this, I look forward to the results every year. Please post the top 40 list when you get a chance. Here's a diff from last year:

Who's new in the top 25 for 2013?

25 Viper 640 (37 last year)

24 J/105 (34 last year)

22 Y Flyer (29 last year)

who's out in 2013 (2012 ranking listed)?

22 J/24

20 Butterfly

17 Vanguard 15

I'm surprised about the V 15 dropping out of the rankings. Anybody know what's going on?

 

[Hobie Dog]

I have 75 classes on my list and I'm reasonably confident I have the top 40 in order without omissions.

Thanks for doing this, I look forward to the results every year. Please post the top 40 list when you get a chance. Here's a diff from last year:

Who's new in the top 25 for 2013?

25 Viper 640 (37 last year)

24 J/105 (34 last year)

22 Y Flyer (29 last year)

who's out in 2013 (2012 ranking listed)?

22 J/24

20 Butterfly

17 Vanguard 15

I'm surprised about the V 15 dropping out of the rankings. Anybody know what's going on?

+1 on posting the top 40 please.